Author Topic: The Shivan's Enemy Theory  (Read 7776 times)

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Offline terran_emperor

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The Shivan's Enemy Theory
Here's my more serious Shivan Theory...

The shivans are locked in perpetual warfare with an as of yet unseen enemy. This was has raged for countless millenia, possibly even millions of years. Neither side is able to get an advantage over the other as they are both equally matched. So shivan stratagist hit upon an extremely unorthodox idea - a race capable of defeating the shivans would also be capable of defeating their Enemy. Though this plan would amost certainly result in mutual destruction of both the Shivans and their enemy, the Shivan High Command didn't care as long as the Enemy was destroyed. So they set about grooming the younger races until one emerges that is capable of taking down the Shivans and thus also the Enemy.

Stage 1
THese Candidate Races (who lived well behind the Shivan Lines) must meet serval criteria:
1) The Race must be spacefaring (obviously)
2) The Race must be subspace capable
3) THe race must be agressive, warlike and capable of sustaining a long term intersteller war (mimimum duration 3 Shivan stellar cycle (roughly 15 years))

If Stage 1 criteria are met, then the race is moved to:
Stage 2
The candidate race is subjected to an intelligence test.
A Lucifer Planet Killer with task force attacks the candidate race and begins systematic destruction of the race. However, the Lucifer has a design flaw. If the race is intelligent and/or resourseful enough they will find the flaw and be able to use this flaw to repell the attack.
The Lucifer's flaw is 2-fold
1) It is powered by 5 reletivly vunerable Reactors
2) It's shields do not function in Subspace (though this is a natural flaw as Subspace and Shield Tech are incompatible

Stage 3
After stage 2 is complete, the candidate race is then given time to rebuild and conduct R&D. after a certain amount of time, the Shivans attack the candidate race with a more advanced fleet to see what has been learned.

Stage 4
If the Candidate race is advanced enough to be able to repel this more advanced fleet, then a Sathanas is dispatched to engage the Race.

Stage 5
If the Candidate race is capable of destroying a Sathanas, then a Sathanas Sun-Buster fleet is dispatched to destroy one of the major stars of the Candidate Race's domain. THe purpose of this is a Reaction test to see how the Candidate Race deals with the incursion.

Stage 6 and beyond.
Details unknown. But it continues untill one of the Candidate races advances enough to become the Shivan's final solution

THe Ancients met the stage 1 criteria and were moved to stage two. The Ancients discovered the solution but were exterminated before they could take advantage of it 

in the Earth year 2335, the Terrans and Vasudans were moved to stage 2. AT first they were just another two candidate races albeit slightly more challenging ones. What caught the Shivan's attention was that the Terrans and Vasudans previously, blood enemies, quickly ceased hostilities and allied themselves against the invasion - this was something that had never happened before. Together they quickly reverse engineered shivan sensors and shields and developed new weapons capable of penetrating the shields of Shivan fighters. Though the Shivan's rendered Vasuda Prime uninhabitable, the Allies continued to develop.
First they developed miniturized intersystem jump-drives for fighters, then they discovered the design flaw in the Lucifers reactors. However, the Allies were unable to take advantage of it untill they discovered the Remains of an Ancient City. Here they found out how to track an object into subspace and take advantage in both the Lucifers flaws to destroy it -

As the Lucifer was destroyed at the very last minute, the explosion destroyed the Jump nodes in Sol, cutting of Earth from the rest of the galaxy. Shivan high command decided that Sol was out of the Game and would be ignored unless it reconnected to its colonies.

Despite the loss of both Homeworlds in one way or another, the Allies were able to repel the shivan attack and thus were moved to Stage 3.
However, when the NTF discovered the knossos portal and encountered the Shivans, they triggered the Attack phase of STage 3 early. Left with little choise, the Ravana task force began its work. THey discovered that Allies had developed beam Weaponry amongst other things.

Because the Ravana Task force was discovered early, it was forced to initiate the attack phase of stage 3 before it reached full size. Thus as the Ravana Task force was not at full strength, it was decimated quite quickly and as one can expect the GTVA were moved to stage 4 way ahead of schedule.

The GTVA barely managed to stop the Sathanas managed to pass stage 5 with a Pyrrhic victory - sealing the Sun-Buster Fleet in Capella at the cost of many of their best ships

While this was going on, the shivans were very supprised to find one Terran ship contact them. Bosch and his Senior Staff were taken away for reasons and purposes unknown (I suspect modification like B5's vorlons did with Lyta or like what the Shadows did for Technomages) and the rest of the crew were killed. The reason being was that direct contact prior to Final Stage was forbiddon.

Following the Capella Debacle, Shivan High Command ordered a withdrawal from GTVA Space for an unspecified amount of time. The GTVA would use this time to develop Knossos and ETAK tech and further develop it Weapons Tech and understanding of Shivan Tech.

The Ultimate outcome of the Shivan's plan is unknown. The GTVA showed promise, buy may just be one of many species at that level. Ultimatly, The GTVA may not even end up being the Shivan's Final Solution but only a stepping stone.

My basis for this theory
1) :v: 's comments that the Shivans were symptoms of a bigger problem
2) Neither Terrans, Vasudans or the Ancients encountered the Shivans till after they had discovered
3) Everytime the Terrans and Vasudan's have encountered the Shivans, their tech has advanced more. -
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 04:29:02 pm by terran_emperor »
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Offline tinfoil

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
Very well thought out, if a little unlikely. It would make a good basis for a campaign though.
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Offline The E

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
Very good theory, indeed. Although, from a purely narrative standpoint, you're veering into Humans (and Vasudans) are special territory. But never mind me, i just like to nag ;)
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Offline terran_emperor

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
Very good theory, indeed. Although, from a purely narrative standpoint, you're veering into Humans (and Vasudans) are special territory. But never mind me, i just like to nag ;)

I never said we were special. Just that that we were interesting. The Shivans had never been double teamed before. Previously they came across an Advanced Race like the ancients on the warpath.

Whoops noticed i missed out a bit -[sorted]-
e = m csarged - Relativity according to Sarge [Red vs Blue]

TRUE SHIVAN

HLP's only Goro Naya (Great Leader) fan


"I really wasn't expecting this much losership"


"Only one thing is impossible for a Vorlon to understand: How to change the IRQ setting in any DOS computer."

HLP Brit

 

Offline The E

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
I never said we were special. Just that that we were interesting. The Shivans had never been double teamed before. Previously they came across an Advanced Race like the ancients on the warpath.

Whoops noticed i missed out a bit -[sorted]-

Yes, but thats exactly what Humans Are Special is about. By your theory, the Shivans would only appear after or during a war between two or more spacefaring cultures. I find it a bit hard to believe that none of them ever developed the "Enemy of my Enemy is my friend"-Meme. But again, thats just something I would have done differently, if i had formulated that theory, and is only based on my storytelling sensibilities.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
Interesting idea.  It certainly fits with the themes that are expanded upon in both games.

 

Offline Pred the Penguin

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
Very good theory, indeed. Although, from a purely narrative standpoint, you're veering into Humans (and Vasudans) are special territory. But never mind me, i just like to nag ;)
Who knows? Humanity could have been wiped out before the final stage. :lol:

 

Offline Killer Whale

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
If you simply look at the great war, see this...

Terrans penetrated shields (I think first, not sure)
Terrans built shields (see above)
Vasudans lost home planet, similar to ancient's "we can't deliver the hurt".
Terrans found lucy flaws
Vasudans learnt how to penetrate lucy's shields
Terrans destroyed lucy.

Now imagine one race trying to do that.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
Quote
Terrans penetrated shields (I think first, not sure)

Dang straight.  There's a bonus objective (at least on the FS Port release) to destroy one of the fighters on the first mission with shivans.

 

Offline Killer Whale

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
Spammed furies rule!!
But i meant the avenger.

 

Offline Hellstryker

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
I never said we were special. Just that that we were interesting. The Shivans had never been double teamed before. Previously they came across an Advanced Race like the ancients on the warpath.

Whoops noticed i missed out a bit -[sorted]-

Yes, but thats exactly what Humans Are Special is about. By your theory, the Shivans would only appear after or during a war between two or more spacefaring cultures. I find it a bit hard to believe that none of them ever developed the "Enemy of my Enemy is my friend"-Meme. But again, thats just something I would have done differently, if i had formulated that theory, and is only based on my storytelling sensibilities.

Well personally, I always viewed the ancients as a slaver race of sorts...

 

Offline terran_emperor

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
Very good theory, indeed. Although, from a purely narrative standpoint, you're veering into Humans (and Vasudans) are special territory. But never mind me, i just like to nag ;)
Who knows? Humanity could have been wiped out before the final stage. :lol:

THats my entire point. Humans aren't special in the Grand Scheme of things. We are just interesting. but ultimately we are just another stepping.

If you simply look at the great war, see this...

Terrans penetrated shields (I think first, not sure)
Terrans built shields (see above)
Vasudans lost home planet, similar to ancient's "we can't deliver the hurt".
Terrans found lucy flaws
Vasudans learnt how to penetrate lucy's shields
Terrans destroyed lucy.

Now imagine one race trying to do that.

I agree that one race could have done all that but i think if it had just have been the Terrans it would have been over quickly. If anything and ill be Brutally honest, the Vasudans' presence extended the game time

*Terrans depetrated shields first with only point blank shots from Ballistic missiles. Im sure that realistically the Vasudans must have taken out at least one fighter the same way before the Treaty was signed
*Terrans adapted Shivan sensors and the Avenger to penetrate shields
*Shields were a joint venture (Lab Scene), in fact im sure that Miniture-Inter System Jump drives and the Subspace tracker were also joint-developments
*Terrans also lost their homeworld just in a different way to the Zods.
*There were Vasudan fighters in the final show down with the lucifer so - joint venture.
*Project Colossus - Joint Venture
*Zods developed beams first. (Not counting the Hades)
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TRUE SHIVAN

HLP's only Goro Naya (Great Leader) fan


"I really wasn't expecting this much losership"


"Only one thing is impossible for a Vorlon to understand: How to change the IRQ setting in any DOS computer."

HLP Brit

 

Offline azile0

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
*Zods developed beams first. (Not counting the Hades)

Really? I thought that it was the Terrans that came up with them first. I.E. in Homesick. Even though HS is non-canon.
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Offline terran_emperor

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
I'm sure i read some where that it was the Zods who pioneered Beam weapon research...
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TRUE SHIVAN

HLP's only Goro Naya (Great Leader) fan


"I really wasn't expecting this much losership"


"Only one thing is impossible for a Vorlon to understand: How to change the IRQ setting in any DOS computer."

HLP Brit

 
 

Offline castor

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
It's an interesting idea and nicely tied into known history of FS universe. I see one problem with the Shivan plan though; to find the solution they need to fight on two fronts, against races about as capable as they are. This could get them exterminated by a race lesser than themselves or the unseen enemy.

 
Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
My idea about this "bigger problem":

The Shivans are just it's slaves, free labor type of dudes, cannon fodder. Some of them could be fighting some war for the "bigger problem".
Others could be looking for a candidate to become the next slaves, cannon fodder, free labor.

Let's say they have this deal that they work for the "bigger problem" until they find new 'pawns' on the galactic game of chess. Once they succeed, they are free to go home. Admiral Petrarch's speach of them being travelers who are homeless like the Humans would be pretty much right on the money.

And since they are speculated to have opened a supernode leading to their homeworld, it's possible that the GTVA passed the test in terran_emperor's theory (perhaps they're forced to do it on each candidate to amuse the "bigger problem", like gladiators had to do different tasks to amuse Ancient Romans).

That means we are to become the next Shivans, and we'll be forced to fight some war on the other end of the galaxy, while having small fleets search for civilizations that pass some kind of new test to take our place...

...while the "bigger problem" guys bet money on how long it would take us to find a replacement for ourselves.
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Offline Killer Whale

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
5 Deimos' that it's the terrans

 

Offline terran_emperor

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
THats veering into "Humans are special" territory
e = m csarged - Relativity according to Sarge [Red vs Blue]

TRUE SHIVAN

HLP's only Goro Naya (Great Leader) fan


"I really wasn't expecting this much losership"


"Only one thing is impossible for a Vorlon to understand: How to change the IRQ setting in any DOS computer."

HLP Brit

 

Offline Snail

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Re: The Shivan's Enemy Theory
5 Deimos' that it's the terrans
5 Deimos' it ain't.