[Mobius]

General Battuta: No one said that a simulated skybox map would replace nebulae. They'd remain where they are, the only difference is that instead of black space filled with stars you'd see something that gives the impression of a simulated environment. Also, it's only going to appear in what, 5 missions only? The other would keep the normal skybox, as usual.

High Max: Might be hard because the skybox is chosen via FRED and there's no apparent way to know if a given mission should make use of it or not. It's not even the case to set the simulated skybox for all training missions because they're not necessarily supposed to be simulated. There are training missions plus normal missions set as training ones. I'm not a coder myself but I'm afraid adding the option you proposed could be difficult.


On a side note, the skybox should be used in simulated multiplayer battles as well(not in all multiplayer missions, many of them are actually supposed to be "pure" and not simulated battles).

IMO it's controversial enough that it could just be implemented in a separate VP, with the modified mission files, that can be dropped in to your MediaVPs directory if you want it. Like the radar icons.

Interesting proposal... 

[Woolie Wool]

I have a skybox that is a green grid superimposed over a green starfield with (I think) asteroids and nebula patches. Unfortunately it's only 512x512 per texture.

[sfried]

How about
Simulated skybox: Old FS2 retail stars/nebulae
Actual/Real mission skybox: The newer FSOpen backgrounds

[ARSPR]

Hey guys, let's stop discussing and let's start doing something  ...

Adding a new starfield background is pretty easy for any skilled modder. So if someone wants to post an example/tweak, then please:

• Make the new 3DSimSkybox.pof (or whatever other name you want), with the tweaked background texture.
• Edit whatever missions you want (mainly training ones) in order to use it.
• Make a 00-patch.vp with all the files.
• Post it here.

It's not SO crucial. When we all see the effect we can start discussing if we would like to add it to Mediavp (although it's not canon so I feel it shouldn't go even if prettier) or even better, offer it just as an "un-official" tweak.

We should see it in game because there's a chance of this kind of background looking awful. I mean, nebulas and other mission backgrounds are drawn OVER the skybox. So the simulated reticle might look frankly weird...

[Mobius]

Speaking of the background, all we need is to add another sphere to the normal starfield.pof skybox model and texture it with the grid. That shouldn't override nebulae and stars, I hope...

[ARSPR]

Speaking of the background, all we need is to add another sphere to the normal starfield.pof skybox model and texture it with the grid. That shouldn't override nebulae and stars, I hope...

I mean that the background nebulas you add in every mission through the background editor will be rendered OVER the "computerized" grid. And this effect could look quite fine or it could look quite odd...

[Mobius]

The effect doesn't necessarily have to be be wonderful, it's the fact that it represents a simulation to boost it.

How about adding a grid in the middle of the skybox, just like in FRED and briefings?

[ARSPR]

How about adding a grid in the middle of the skybox, just like in FRED and briefings?

Is it possible? I don't know how skybox pof model exactly works.

[Mobius]

They're special models, which can be edited just like the others. Grids could be easily added.

[sfried]

I'm not quite fond of the grid idea, but I would want a discernible simulator-style skybox, which is why the retail skybox in all its sparseness would look appropriate. All it could use is a little bit more stylization (pixelated sun/stars?), but I think grids are too "overkill" on the whole VR idea.

[Droid803]

The thing is, if it isn't overkill, you'd get people going "wats rong wif my fso y duz it luk funneh" and stuff...
I want Grids.

[General Battuta]

I think it's dumb to make new players' first experience with FSOpen dry and unspectacular.

Those nebulae are really, really striking, after all.

[Droid803]

You're not getting it:
There are still going to be stars.
There are still going to be nebulas.
All I want added are a few green lines.

How exactly would that make it any less spectacular?

[General Battuta]

I apologize. I was addressing sfried.

I am concerned the green lines will be incongrous and unnecessary, but that's a separate protest.

[Mobius]

I think it's dumb to make new players' first experience with FSOpen dry and unspectacular.

Those nebulae are really, really striking, after all.

You're not getting it:
There are still going to be stars.
There are still going to be nebulas.
All I want added are a few green lines.

How exactly would that make it any less spectacular?

I apologize. I was addressing sfried.

Good, it was damn time...

I am concerned the green lines will be incongrous and unnecessary, but that's a separate protest.

Green lines? Have you ever used FRED or seen a briefing? They're white-grey...

[Droid803]

Well, line color is easy to change.
I don't think color is the issue here.

[General Battuta]

Immediately subsequent to Droid's post was 'about damn time'? What should I have done, edited the apology into the first post you quoted? It was a simple miscommunication.

Anyway, I'm open to seeing how it looks ingame. Real-life simulators do tend to strive for veracity, so I'm not completely convinced a GTVA simulator would be any different...

Mobius, the projected HUD elements we've seen ingame so far have been green. I believe the only example we have is the jump node, but I may be forgetting something.

[Black Wolf]

Maybe do it as a standard nebula skybox (using LS's nebulae to maintain a sort of standard FSO look) overlaid with 80 or 90% opacity over a grid? So it'd still look like space, but also make it clear that you're in a virtual environment.

[EDIT]Whoops, didn't properly read the thread, looks like this idea (or at least something similar) has already been suggested. So count me as another vote for this method.

[Mongoose]

I kind of think it would be rather absurd for a training simulator to have something so blatantly unrealistic as grid lines in the background.  Actual flight simulators today are intended to duplicate the real experience of piloting an aircraft as closely as possible; I'm sure manufacturers would kill to be able to reproduce photorealistic graphics without the slightest hint of artificiality.  For a training sim to intentionally add an artificial element into the scenario would defeat the entire purpose for which it was designed.  Plus, when you stop and think about it, we're kind of flying in a simulator of a GTVA fightercraft ourselves, and last time I checked, I didn't see any grid lines out there.

[Black Wolf]

For a training sim to intentionally add an artificial element into the scenario would defeat the entire purpose for which it was designed. 

Not if the purpose for which it was designed was to look awesome.