[Aquilonius]

I was just looking at the Freespace Official Universe Map and the map here.

If I remember right, the first attack illustrated in Freespace: The Great War is on Ross 128, right?

Take a look at the nodes connecting to Ross 128 on both maps.

We can assume that the Shivans came from the Laramis region, since they had to go through Delta Seprentis to reach Sol. But for some reason, they don't reach Delta Serpentis until near the end of the game.

Does anyone else see what I'm getting at here?

[Mobius]

That starmap is for the BWO universe, which is not canon for the main FreeSpace universe. All systems behind Altair, in fact, are nowhere to be found in canon sources.

The Shivans entered Ross 128, but I'm pretty sure they didn't come from Laramis, because someone would have noticed them - Laramis is not a desert system. From the GTC Aeolus' tech description we know, in fact, that the system housed at least one major shipyard in the Reconstruction Era.

Overall, you're probably forgetting that the Shivans entered Terran-Vasudan space in Ikeya as well. The Lucifer jumped to Ross 128, but...at this point, this leads me to believe that the Shivans preferred to strike Sol later. I may be missing one or more pieces of the puzzle, though.

[Aquilonius]

Yeah, I did forget about Ikeya. But still, the Ross 128 thing was just something I noticed - both maps show that from Ross 128, there is only one way they can get into Vasudan space.

Of course, Ikeya makes that irrelevant.

But then, I'd also want to know this: If the Shivans came into Ross 128 from somewhere other than Laramis, and they also entered by Ikeya...how the *** did they get there!? According to the canon map, there are no other (known) jump nodes to Ikeya than Ribos, and Ross 128 only goes to Laramis and Delta Serpentis.

Of course, that's part of the point...no one knows. Ah, well. I guess I'll have to have to be tortured with not knowing.

Damn Volition for leaving the story incomplete!

[Mobius]

The story isn't incomplete - it's suspected that they used unstable nodes the Terrans or Vasudans would never use. That allowed the Shivans to enter T-V space from unknown locations.

[Wobble73]

The story isn't incomplete - it's suspected that they used unstable nodes the Terrans or Vasudans would never use. That allowed the Shivans to enter T-V space from unknown locations.

Which is a great plot device to explain away some inconsistencies in canon. 

[Mobius]

Petrarch mentioned intersystem jumps(made without using nodes) near the end of the main FreeSpace 2 campaign, though.

[Droid803]

And he also said that there's no evidence to support it, and that he believes that Shivans are just as dependent on jump nodes as the Terrans and Vasudans are, just that they use uncharted and unstable jump nodes.

There may have been a highly unstable jump node leading to Ross 128 (which would not be on the charts), or, the Lucifer may have jumped in from a then-stable jump node long ago which has since disappeared, and has been lying low somewhere after like in an asteroid belt or someplace, shut down completely, for many years until something triggered its awakening...(maybe the GTI?)

The Lucifer might have only decided to nuke homeworlds later, bypassing Sol when it went to the other systems.

[Titan]

Maybe the GTI actually did something to the shivans that made them back off and regroup elsewhere.

Or here's something better: There was 2 Lucifers.

[Droid803]

Then what happened to the other one?

[Mobius]

And he also said that there's no evidence to support it, and that he believes that Shivans are just as dependent on jump nodes as the Terrans and Vasudans are, just that they use uncharted and unstable jump nodes.

They do have a superior knowledge of subspace, which may allow them to travel using unstable nodes.

Also, the Lucifer may have been lying low somewhere, like in an asteroid belt or someplace, shut down completely, for many years until something triggered its awakening...(maybe the GTI?)

Assuming that this theory might be valid, where did the rest of the Lucifer Fleet hide? There were too many warships and spacecraft...

[Dilmah G]

And he also said that there's no evidence to support it, and that he believes that Shivans are just as dependent on jump nodes as the Terrans and Vasudans are, just that they use uncharted and unstable jump nodes.

They do have a superior knowledge of subspace, which may allow them to travel using unstable nodes.

Also, the Lucifer may have been lying low somewhere, like in an asteroid belt or someplace, shut down completely, for many years until something triggered its awakening...(maybe the GTI?)

Assuming that this theory might be valid, where did the rest of the Lucifer Fleet hide? There were too many warships and spacecraft...

In the theory's defence, maybe the Lucifer called for backup?

[Mobius]

But why would it be there in the first place? The Shivans don't leave ships...they enter systems, slaughter one or more species and then go away. There were no Shivan ships left in GTVA systems that once belonged to the Ancient Empire, although you can give for sure that 8,000 years before FS2 the Shivans stormed those systems.

I think you're giving too much importance to this non-canon ship.

[Locutus of Borg]

This sounds like it supports the theory where the Shivans were testing the Terrans and Vasudans.

They've had the means to destroy everyone, and could have used it easily. They could have brought in the Sathani fleet before the Knossos was discovered in Epsilon Pegasai. Maybe they didn't go directly for Sol because that would invalidate the test?

But yes, I do believe that the Shivans have knowledge of nodes unknown or too unstable for Terran and Vasudan ships. Petrarch's line at the end of the game was put there for a reason/

[Blue Lion]

This sounds like it supports the theory where the Shivans were testing the Terrans and Vasudans.

They've had the means to destroy everyone, and could have used it easily. They could have brought in the Sathani fleet before the Knossos was discovered in Epsilon Pegasai. Maybe they didn't go directly for Sol because that would invalidate the test?

But yes, I do believe that the Shivans have knowledge of nodes unknown or too unstable for Terran and Vasudan ships. Petrarch's line at the end of the game was put there for a reason/

A test for what? Our luck at finding old artifacts?

[Droid803]

The ability to adapt, and to learn from the past? Donno.

[Mobius]

I think the Shivans aren't supposed to let "dangerous" species learn how to adapt and survive. If a species a threat for the cosmos, the Shivans simply annihilate it. They don't want to teach anything.

[Blue Lion]

Then I'm not sure what the ending to FS2 does exactly to annihilate us?

[Mobius]

They inflicted severe casualties to the GTVA fleet. Also, please note that the destruction of Capella is not to be considered the end of a series of events, but rather one of the pieces of a greater puzzle. Petrarch clearly said that the destructions of the jump nodes leading to Capella would have been nothing but a "temporary measure", meaning that the Shivans could enter GTVA space later(and from other locations).

[Blue Lion]

They used 80 Sathanas Juggernauts to blow up Capella to.... come back with more guys? Bigger ships?

Why wait? They could have blown us out the of sky (so to speak) with that fleet.

Now I'm not saying I know the overall goal, but if "they came to kill us all because we're a threat", they botched the job.

[Mobius]

There's no FS3 so we don't know...