[Hellstryker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement#ISP_cooperation

"The leaked document includes a provision to force Internet Service Providers (ISPs) to provide information about suspected copyright infringers without a warrant, making it easier for the record industry to sue music file sharers and for officials to shut down non-commercial BitTorrent websites such as The Pirate Bay"

[Blue Lion]

I'm not wading through all that, but does it say who gets to decide who to ask?

Does the music industry get to ask the ISPs or does the government?

[Rick James]

I'm not wading through all that, but does it say who gets to decide who to ask?

Does the music industry get to ask the ISPs or does the government?

In the case of America, it makes little difference because lobbyists have such influence on the government that the MPAA, RIAA, and associated organizations will basically have free reign to clamp down on infringers and sue or imprison as many as they see fit, regardless of the quality of their "evidence".

[Blue Lion]

One if definitely easier to hide than the other though

[Hellstryker]

One if definitely easier to hide than the other though

Sure, you can hide illegally downloaded music, but what am I going to do, load games from a flash drive each time I want to play? 

[Blue Lion]

I meant it's easier to hide the music industries asking the ISPs for names than the government asking.

[Fury]

but what am I going to do, load games from a flash drive each time I want to play? 

It is a radical idea, but how about buying the games you want to play?

[Hellstryker]

but what am I going to do, load games from a flash drive each time I want to play? 

It is a radical idea, but how about buying the games you want to play?

Because, like most people, we're rather tight on money right now. I'm not spending 60 dollars on the latest bull**** that will entertain me for a short amount of time.

[blackhole]

I want to point out that due to the broken business model currently used by the game industry, all games are overpriced, and its not because of piracy. The simply fact is that piracy is the catch-all culprit for all price changes and everything that ever goes wrong with a product. Prices are so high right now because companies pour millions of dollars into games to hire 3D artists that make 500 different versions of a paintbrush and then forget to assign it physics.

Pirating games is wrong, but the poor game companies aren't exactly hapless victims here. I'd say its more like a war. With explosions. And collateral damage. The old business models must go and until they do things will just get messier and messier until the industry is shut out of it's own products.

[Blue Lion]

but what am I going to do, load games from a flash drive each time I want to play? 

It is a radical idea, but how about buying the games you want to play?

Because, like most people, we're rather tight on money right now. I'm not spending 60 dollars on the latest bull**** that will entertain me for a short amount of time.

Then you could, you know, not buy it?

I've spent maybe 50 bucks on games all year.

[Nuke]

i probibly pirated a record number of games this year. i used to buy games when i still had respect for game companies, but ive been steadily losing patience with their crap. my reasons for pirating music is because the record industry doesnt respect my genre enough to give it its own section in the record store (and the fact that i listen to a lot of underground stuff thats hard to get any other way).

[blackhole]

Most of the music I listen to is free. And most of it is better then the crap the RIAA is so desperate to save.

[Fury]

Because, like most people, we're rather tight on money right now. I'm not spending 60 dollars on the latest bull**** that will entertain me for a short amount of time.

Then the solution is simple, do not buy but do not steal either. You're not exactly in the position to complain that there will be consequences if you get caught.

I want to point out that due to the broken business model currently used by the game industry, all games are overpriced, and its not because of piracy. The simply fact is that piracy is the catch-all culprit for all price changes and everything that ever goes wrong with a product. Prices are so high right now because companies pour millions of dollars into games to hire 3D artists that make 500 different versions of a paintbrush and then forget to assign it physics.

Pirating games is wrong, but the poor game companies are exactly hapless victims here. I'd say its more like a war. With explosions. And collateral damage. The old business models must go and until they do things will just get messier and messier until the industry is shut out of it's own products.

Well said.

i probibly pirated a record number of games this year. i used to buy games when i still had respect for game companies, but ive been steadily losing patience with their crap. my reasons for pirating music is because the record industry doesnt respect my genre enough to give it its own section in the record store (and the fact that i listen to a lot of underground stuff thats hard to get any other way).

Not exactly something to be proud of. For the record, I'm not saying I haven't pirated games or music but I'm not saying I have either. You won't see me complaining about the increased pressure on pirates or the chance of getting myself caught if I pirate. I'm not stupid enough to think I have such a moral high ground to complain because the bottom line is, it is stealing.

In the case of America, it makes little difference because lobbyists have such influence on the government that the MPAA, RIAA, and associated organizations will basically have free reign to clamp down on infringers and sue or imprison as many as they see fit, regardless of the quality of their "evidence".

Now this is something I very much would complain about if I would live in the States. They have no right to stomp on the constitutional civil rights and should prosecute through proper channels with proper evidence.

[Hellstryker]

Lower the prices, raise the quality, and remove the DRM bull**** from your games and then I'll pay for them.   I'm complaining because instead of fixing the problem they're just covering it up.

Oh, I would also like to add that I cannot play many older games to my lack of a CD ROM drive, but that's secondary.

By the way, saying "I'm not saying I have or haven't" Is as good as saying you have.

[Fury]

Lower the prices, raise the quality, and remove the DRM bull**** from your games and then I'll pay for them.   I'm complaining because instead of fixing the problem they're just covering it up.

Those are definitely valid issues. What irks me is the fact that people seem to think that those reasons make stealing right, it isn't.

By the way, saying "I'm not saying I have or haven't" Is as good as saying you have.

Interpretation is up to you. However, what reason I would have to say, "Hey, I stole this t-shirt yesterday from mall." Or "I just stole this DVD-movie from someone's bag". Seriously, even if what you download isn't anything physical, just bits and bytes, it doesn't make it any less a crime.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

I'd have to say I can see both sides of the argument.  When I was young (talking early 80's here)pirating was the norm but it was done in a way where the companies made money.  We had meetings where everyone bought one game then we copied it if we could.  It was a challenge since each game was basically it's own OS.  It involved taking you drive apart (floppy there were no hard drive yet) to do.  When I got older and got a job I bought my stuff but would still copy a game or 2 with people I knew.  Heck it was 24k and no internet.  I even ran a BBS with a backroom for such things but you had to be know to get access to it.  I haven't bought a game in ages nor have I pirated them just because they aren't worth it.  I haven't seen a game in years that has actually be worth more than about 10 bucks.  If it takes less time to beat the thing then to drink a case of beer my money is going to the beer. 

Now for the music/videos.  I haven't bought music in probably 15 years.  Why?  Not because of illegal downloads but because of the industry potion on sharing.  You used to be allowed to record a song off the radio and share it with a friend.  Now you can't even but a CD and covert it to MP3 on your own computer without breaking the law.  How many times do you have to pay for a song before you own a song?  You had to pay for albums then 8-tracks then cassets then CD's and now MP3's.  Not only that you want ring tones?  Pay for those get a new phone or PC pay again.  Want to here the song in a bar pay again.  Want to here it on the radio pay by listien to comercials.  When does it end?  When has the industry finally miked enogh out of you for hearing that song?  Same with movies. 

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I'm not spending 60 dollars on the latest bull**** that will entertain me for a short amount of time.

Modern games are crap because their system requirements are way too high, only working at a decent speed on the newest computers.

It took me half a decade to be able to play RollerCoaster Tycoon 3, and even then, I preferred RollerCoaster Tycoon 2.

I feel very tempted to write 100 lines consisting of profanity just to completely convey my mood about modern games and the garbage that 99% of youths call "music" and "movies", but I'm not as brazen as BlackDove, so I won't.

[Fury]

Now for the music/videos.  I haven't bought music in probably 15 years.  Why?  Not because of illegal downloads but because of the industry potion on sharing.  You used to be allowed to record a song off the radio and share it with a friend.  Now you can't even but a CD and covert it to MP3 on your own computer without breaking the law.  How many times do you have to pay for a song before you own a song?  You had to pay for albums then 8-tracks then cassets then CD's and now MP3's.  Not only that you want ring tones?  Pay for those get a new phone or PC pay again.  Want to here the song in a bar pay again.  Want to here it on the radio pay by listien to comercials.  When does it end?  When has the industry finally miked enogh out of you for hearing that song?  Same with movies. 

Yes, this is a ridiculous concept and I can't but wonder how the hell people have put up with that so far. It's nothing but milking a cow dry and alienating customers.

Modern games are crap because their system requirements are way too high, only working at a decent speed on the newest computers.

I would normally suggest to get a console if you can't keep up with progessing PC tech. However, console games are typically more expensive so I'm left doubting whether there's any difference in the end. On the plus side, hardware doesn't change often.

To be honest, I might jump into the console bandwagon once next-gen game consoles are out sometime 2012. At least I will save money on hardware and I can only hope console games will be cheaper then...

[Nuke]

im not gonna try to say piracy isnt stealing. it sure is. but since im the sort of person who thinks the worlds problems could be solved throiugh serious nukage, im gonna steal steal steal. im also getting tired of spending thousands on high end hardware for there to be only a few games to take advantage of it. or buy cheap hardware and have nothing run on it. or buy a console and have dumbed down games. they want to stop me from pirating, they can increase quality, lower prices, and produce more games. and i might consider not stealing.

as for music and movies, the internet is becoming so full of it you can name any song off the top of your head type it into google or myspce or youtube and have some audio to listen to. as for movies and tv those are starting to be streamed on the internet. i have no problems having such content contain ads, its the way tv and radio have worked of years and i dont see why the internet should be any different. but now you can pick exactly what you want to watch, when you want to watch it and they can insert commercials to support it. i use such services already. its just a matter of introducing more content

[Fury]

i use such services already.

Are there actually any decent ones that work outside the US?