[Mobius]

Firstly, your mom came up with a bizzare arguement that the devs couldn't have TOS and TNS style Galacticas in the game because of the different turrets and subsystems.  My point was quite clear in stating that since Basestars dont't share the same turrets and subsystems as the Galactica model, and nor do the Pegasus, Valk or other ships in the game, and that each has its own coding setup, then there is no technical reason that  TOS Galactica couldn't be included.  Why your mom continue to argue is a mystery, given Kajorma's answer on the matter.

As for other models of Battlestars being in the TNS original war, why are your mom so sure there was only one model?  Why are your mom so sure there were only 12 Battlestars, too?  Just becoase one Battlestar was chosen to represent each colony, it doesn't follow that there were only twelve ships, and there has been nothing to suggest that they were all of the same class, just like there are several different classes of ships in any navy.  If there was a model of TNS Battlestar, that can be taken as conon that such Battlestars served alongside Galactica and Columbia during the Cylon War.

Dude...

1) I was discussing under a turret handling point of view. If your mom're supposed to destroy a turret the alternate model doesn't have, the mission won't progress. Do your mom understand?

Also, I fail to understand why your mom keep mentioning the Basestar even if I'm discussing Battlestars, only.

2) I'm pretty sure it was mentioned at the beginning that there were only 12 Battlestars. Please note that until the beginning of the Cylon War the colonials weren't supposed to engage in any battle, I guess. They started building a Battlestar fleet either during or after the Cylon War.

[Snagger]

First of all, since this is massively off-topic now, may I request a split?

Second, could I have link to an explanation for the not-disarmored thing? When watching the Flashback scenes in Razor, it seemed to me as if Columbia was more heavily armored, at least on her front, than Galactica. And, yeah, Basestars do seem to be that powerful.
Third: Snagger, calm down. It's April fools, and some script randomly messes with anyones posts. Try reloading the page.  Besides, how would Locutus fool with anyones posts, except his own? He is neither a Moderator nor an Admin.

OK, I've never seen that happen on posts on any forum before, so didn't know it could happen as a 1st Apr thing.  All I have seen is one guy get stiffed with the big loud "you're an idiot" smiley every time he posted on a forum, and it was another member that did it to him (he desrved it at the time, but it wasn't an admin or mod who did it).  Sorry for a false accusation, in that case - I retract with apologies it if it is so.  I still don't understand why only my posts are affected.

As for the armour issue, it was a long running discussion on BTRL, eventuaqlly settled by some of the Zoic designers themselves.

[The E]

Dude...

1) I was discussing under a turret handling point of view. If your mom's mom're supposed to destroy a turret the alternate model doesn't have, the mission won't progress. Do your mom's mom understand?

Also, I fail to understand why your mom's mom keep mentioning the Basestar even if I'm discussing Battlestars, only.

2) I'm pretty sure it was mentioned at the beginning that there were only 12 Battlestars. Please note that until the beginning of the Cylon War the colonials weren't supposed to engage in any battle, I guess. They started building a Battlestar fleet either during or after the Cylon War.

Well, but you are supposing that if such a model were made, it would (potentially) be used as a replacement for the new Galactica in Diaspora-era missions. I'd like to believe that the soon-to-be-existing Diaspora modding community will be a bit more creative than that. After all, since the old Galactica has been retconned into the new series by way of a museum exhibit, it wouldn't be really appropriate to use it in anything other than a First-War-era campaign (IMHO, of course).

I still don't understand why only my posts are affected.

Everyones affected by the you/your -> you/your thing. And then there's a script running around, randomly assigning a pregnancy message to posts. However, the actual post can be seen by reloading the page. It's not just you.

[Snagger]

Dude...

1) I was discussing under a turret handling point of view. If your mom's mom're supposed to destroy a turret the alternate model doesn't have, the mission won't progress. Do your mom's mom understand?

Also, I fail to understand why your mom's mom keep mentioning the Basestar even if I'm discussing Battlestars, only.

2) I'm pretty sure it was mentioned at the beginning that there were only 12 Battlestars. Please note that until the beginning of the Cylon War the colonials weren't supposed to engage in any battle, I guess. They started building a Battlestar fleet either during or after the Cylon War.

1)  I understand that entirely, but given that the models would be written into the missions as script, not a switchable option, how do they differ from any other model and objective?

2)  I mention Basestar models because I'm trying to make the point that the game can differentiate between Galactica and a Basestar, or any other model, without getting hung up on turrets and systems because the game knows what ship model is being dealt with.  I don't understand why you think it would be any different with another Battlestar model.

[Mobius]

Well, but you are supposing that if such a model were made, it would (potentially) be used as a replacement for the new Galactica in Diaspora-era missions. I'd like to believe that the soon-to-be-existing Diaspora modding community will be a bit more creative than that. After all, since the old Galactica has been retconned into the new series by way of a museum exhibit, it wouldn't be really appropriate to use it in anything other than a First-War-era campaign (IMHO, of course).

I doubt the Diaspora team will be designing a First War era campaign using stuff from the 78 series...

1)  I understand that entirely, but given that the models would be written into the missions as script, not a switchable option, how do they differ from any other model and objective?

As I said, it's unlikely that there will be a campaign based on them. The'd work only as alternate versions of the current models. That's why compatibility problems may occur.

2)  I mention Basestar models because I'm trying to make the point that the game can differentiate between Galactica and a Basestar, or any other model, without getting hung up on turrets and systems because the game knows what ship model is being dealt with.  I don't understand why you think it would be any different with another Battlestar model.

Looks like you didn't get my point, then. Read above.

Lastly, since I'm not a Diaspora team member, I don't know if an old style Galactica will ever be modelled. Hence, discussing the subject would lead to nothing.

[The E]

I doubt the Diaspora team will be designing a First War era campaign using stuff from the 78 series...

Mod, anyone? Sooner or later, something like that would be unavoidable, really.

1)  I understand that entirely, but given that the models would be written into the missions as script, not a switchable option, how do they differ from any other model and objective?

As I said, it's unlikely that there will be a campaign based on them. The'd work only as alternate versions of the current models. That's why compatibility problems may occur.

Why? Are all the slots in Diasporas ships.tbl used? Again, you're thinking of someone wanting to simply switch out the Columbia-class for the old Galactica, which I think is somewhat unlikely. If someone were to do it, then yes, you'd be correct.

Again, split please?

[karajorma]

Gah.

Okay, my opinion on the matter (and I haven't consulted the rest of the team) is that the TOS Galactica is not canon to the BSG universe in the same way that the NCC-1701 and Serenity aren't. They were added as in-jokes, nothing more. The TOS Galactica does not fit into the story we've been told so far, attempting to shoehorn it in would be silly and would undermine the history that has been laid out in the show as well as constantly slapping the user in the face with a feeling it shouldn't be there.

The TOS Viper, Raider and Basestar on the other hand have also all been seen in the show and even before they appeared there was no reason they couldn't be canon. So we definitely will be adding all of them to Diaspora sooner or later, although they're going to be the versions we saw in nBSG, not TOS (Unless we get really bored and do both).


That being said, if someone (Either on the team or a 3rd party) wants to build us a sufficiently good enough version of the TOS Galactica I've got no problem with bundling it with the download. Given that virtually all of the RTF have very similar counterparts in TOS it would allow people to make TOS missions with only a few added weapon effects and the like. It's not at all a priority but it's certainly something I wouldn't complain about having if it was offered.

[Anf23]

Jebus, what the hell did i start!!

*dons robes as per Locutuses suggestion*

I always had a thought, and this is just me here, that the re-imagined Galactica looks a tad like a refit of TOS galactica, of course the overall shape was supposed to be a nod to the original but if you look at the engines on her they have a lot of similarity, like the two oval looking structures on the sides, also on the underbelly there is a circular shape that looks like it was lifted straight from the original. now with the fact it is in the museum and as General Battuta said there where originally only 12 battlestars built originally Galactica being one of them this adds a bit more evidence to this being the case. Maybe TNS galactica was the same class as the original but just had a 1701 style refit during the first war to give her a bit more beef!! just my two cents

[Flipside]

I like TOS, i grew up with it, but everything in its own box. It's like Star Trek's TOS Enterprise is a nice enough ship, but it would look totally out of place next to the later era stuff.

[Anf23]

Agree with tos enterprise not quite fitting in but look at the colonial defender, shes basicly a stunted OS Galactica with two engines, ive got TOS series Galactica TNS series Galactica and the Pegasus titanium models sitting pride of place on my mantelpiece and i have to say they make a damn fine lil fleet!!

[newman]

Well, the new show uses the old series designs as war era relics often - look at the mkI shuttle docking at the armistice station, for instance. They took the shuttle from the original, called it mkI and made an mkII as it's successor. Since the TOS galactica was seen at the museum, who's to say it wasn't a predating class to the Columbia? Yeah they said Galactica represented Caprica - but the colonials probably did build battlestars before the war, and this class may have been in service then. If so, it can be speculated that the old galactica style ships proved inadequate in the beginning of the war, a large number was lost in service and the whole class was subsequently replaced with the more capable Columbia class. All we'd need is a new name for the old style galactica class. It might have even been possible that the Columbia class Galactica wasn't the first Galactica - what if the old one was of the TOS class, then lost in service or decomissioned, and the new one came in it's place? Worked for the 1701..
Now this is all idle speculation of course, but it might be cool to do something along those lines if we ever decide to create a 1st Cylon war campaign - but don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

Mobius: I don't get your "compatibility" problems. If we decide to have it ingame we can simply have it as a separate ship class - much like we'd add any RTF ship (or any other ship for that matter). Nobody's suggesting we actually replace the classes. At any rate, if this happens, it's not happening soon, so sit back, relax, and wait for R1

[FraktuRe]

You all seem to be forgetting that the new pegasus was created as a homage to the original tos battlestar.

As far as I'm concerned, the TOS Galactica has no place whatsoever in the newBSG era. Galactica, the 'first of her kind' and one of the original 12 battlestars.

[Snagger]

Galactica, the 'first of her kind' and one of the original 12 battlestars.

That's a point - some people keep refering to the TNS Galactica as Columbia Class.  That was TOS.  In TNS, I think she was the lead ship, which is backed up by many of the schematic drawings used on the various CIC tables, which are labelled "Galactica Class".  The other three ships in her strike group in Razor look the same, but I think Coumbia was not the lead vessel in this series.

[newman]

You all seem to be forgetting that the new pegasus was created as a homage to the original tos battlestar.

As far as I'm concerned, the TOS Galactica has no place whatsoever in the newBSG era. Galactica, the 'first of her kind' and one of the original 12 battlestars.

Nobody's forgetting anything. Homage doesn't preclude the existence of a class (which may not necessarily be used as a "main" type battlestar at all in the TNS universe).
And Galactica was never said to be the first of her kind - the exact words were "last of her kind still in service" - not exactly the same thing. Story-wise, the TOS class could be incorporated if we chose to do it. The bigger issue is that it doesn't fit the nBSG universe visually so well - especially those internally mounted engines kinda kill it for me. Just don't see it flying beside any of the newer designs. Of course it could be said it's an old war era class, but.. dunno. We'll just have to wait and see I guess. But my point still stands - there is no direct proof that nBSG class is the first type of battlestar ever built.

[Flipside]

Thing is, if you are going to follow things to the letter, then the original Galactica was a lightly defended carrier, not a Warship, it had point defences based on the same sort of cannons that the old style raiders used, no flak, and limited anti-cap weaponry. That was one thing I always noticed about the series, the Cylons didn't fear the Galactica itself, they feared its Viper-compliment.

[Ace]

The TOS Galactica would have some missile batteries as well (the original Hand of God comes to mind), but her point defenses would probably be similar to those on the original Basestars (probably a scaled down version of some of the guns seen on The Colony).

[Flipside]

And, obviously, you have to take into account the limitations of the visual effects involved, which probably means that the TOS Galactica probably isn't nearly as shooty as the producers would have liked, but that's why it's best to keep thing in their own era, if you bring the original in, you'd have to 'Modernise' it, which would lead to all kinds of arguments, not the least of which is that this kind of the point of the new Galactica

[Morwen]

If someone really wants it, just make sure it doesn't come pewpewing with lasers.

Lasers in BSG = 

[redsniper]

Basically, if you do a good job of writing it in and justifying it, then it will be good, and if not it will be bad. Just like anything else.

[Kosh]

Columbia didn't exactly eat up the opposition.

And, y'know, Galactica never could hold its own against modern-day base ships for more than a few minutes.

Yeah, but that only applies to the Galactica in the series, meaning in an environment where she can't get into a dockyard for repairs, is partially disarmored and (maybe) has to operate without the full load of ammunition she carried during the first war (not to mention, being 50 years old and being subject to material fatigue). That said, since the cylons built their basestars to take on the colonials best, it wouldn't surprise me if even under optimum conditions Galactica didn't stand a chance against a modern Basestar.

It still didn't have the firepower to take one down. Hold off, yes, but certainly not destroy it.