[Polpolion]

Has the thought ever occurred to you that if you can't afford a product or service.... you don't get it?

Yet I want to play it anyway, since there's no way I could buy it anyway (meaning it isn't possible for them to make profits off of it anyway), why not pirate so I can add some joy to my otherwise dull existence?

Because it's illegal? 

Are you asking why I think people shouldn't commit crimes just to make themselves feel better?

'I want to "insert crime here" because my life is dull and it gives me joy'

Have fun thinking up cool things to put in there. I can think of a few awesome ones.

I dunno.

Let's say you see this game. You pirate it. Does this harm the developer/producer?

If you wouldn't buy the game if it were impossible to pirate stuff, it's not actually hurting anyone. It's when you would buy it if pirating were impossible that hurts the game companies.

[Blue Lion]

I dunno.

Let's say you see this game. You pirate it. Does this harm the developer/producer?

If you wouldn't buy the game if it were impossible to pirate stuff, it's not actually hurting anyone. It's when you would buy it if pirating were impossible that hurts the game companies.

You're not going to buy it because it's free to steal easily. I would say if it wasn't so easy.... yes, people would have to buy it.

But it's entirely beside the point. You don't get to determine what is ok to steal. The owner of the work does.

[Blue Lion]

No, and copywrite infringement is not illegal. If you notice the big downloaders that go to court are going to CIVIL court, not criminal. It's only the service providers that are getting arrested.

Oh it's only a civil matter? Oh well nevermind then!

Why are these companies taking people to court over civil matters?

Wait, civil means legal... right?

It doesn't? Those people can be sued for money? You don't say. 

[kode]

No, it isn't. The Pirate Bay is a torrent tracker, the almost equivalent to a search engine for torrents.

I'd buy that argument, maybe, if it was called "Torrent Bay."

Well, I can explain the story behind the name.

There's a BSA like organization in sweden called the anti pirate bureau. They inspired the creation of a think tank called, for lulz, the pirate bureau, with the purpose of discussing copyright and related matters and how it should/could be in the future. They made a small experiment on using the new bittorrent technology (i.e. setting up a tracker), that got the name the pirate bay. It later spun off completely and went on to become the site we know today.

well, you might be getting a political party in power who's only position is 'getting stuff for free is totaly awesome'

Not quite. The position is that copyright laws need to be adjusted to work in the 21st century, and that people need to have their personal integrity intact.

[Blue Lion]

If you want to change copyright law.. talk to your congress. State, local, or national legislatures.

Encourage these guys to stop letting Disney slap a new length of time on Mickey Mouse even though he should have been out a long time ago.

But here is an even better thought.

Write an email to a company. Doesn't really matter which. Music, movie, software.. whatever. Have it say

"Dear so and so,

I really like your products. I think they are great. However, I will never buy your products. I say this because you are ruining the industry and/or they cost too much. I still want your product though. Since I will never buy it, me having it will never hurt your profits. Please send me all your works so I can enjoy them.

Thank you"

Then wait and see how fast they send you all their work.

If they won't give them to you, why is it ok to take them?

[Polpolion]

You're not going to buy it because it's free to steal easily. I would say if it wasn't so easy.... yes, people would have to buy it.

But it's entirely beside the point. You don't get to determine what is ok to steal. The owner of the work does.

I wasn't trying to make a point as to whether it was right or wrong, I was point out that no one is hurt from it, even if it is wrong.

Look at it this way:



[attachment deleted by evil Tolwyn]

[Blue Lion]

You're not going to buy it because it's free to steal easily. I would say if it wasn't so easy.... yes, people would have to buy it.

But it's entirely beside the point. You don't get to determine what is ok to steal. The owner of the work does.

I wasn't trying to make a point as to whether it was right or wrong, I was point out that no one is hurt from it, even if it is wrong.

Look at it this way:

And if I rob some billionaire and give all his money away to every person in the country, more people benefit. It's still illegal.

(Gonna wait to see if someone gets it)

You can't just do something and say it helps more people, therefore it must be ok to do.

[Janos]

If you want to change copyright law.. talk to your congress. State, local, or national legislatures.

Encourage these guys to stop letting Disney slap a new length of time on Mickey Mouse even though he should have been out a long time ago.

But here is an even better thought.

Write an email to a company. Doesn't really matter which. Music, movie, software.. whatever. Have it say

"Dear so and so,

I really like your products. I think they are great. However, I will never buy your products. I say this because you are ruining the industry and/or they cost too much. I still want your product though. Since I will never buy it, me having it will never hurt your profits. Please send me all your works so I can enjoy them.

Thank you"

Then wait and see how fast they send you all their work.

If they won't give them to you, why is it ok to take them?

hmmm hmmm have you heard of this one particular party in sweden

the one that is less popular than the feminist party but exists nonetheless

HMMMM could it be that in this particular case the intricacies of US politics have absolutely no influence at all

[Blue Lion]

hmmm hmmm have you heard of this one particular party in sweden

the one that is less popular than the feminist party but exists nonetheless

HMMMM could it be that in this particular case the intricacies of US politics have absolutely no influence at all

I'm not really sure where I mentioned the US at all in that? 

[Polpolion]

And if I rob some billionaire and give all his money away to every person in the country, more people benefit. It's still illegal.

(Gonna wait to see if someone gets it)

You can't just do something and say it helps more people, therefore it must be ok to do.

If something that helps a lot of people and doesn't hurt anyone isn't a good thing, then I don't know what is a good thing...

[Janos]

hmmm hmmm have you heard of this one particular party in sweden

the one that is less popular than the feminist party but exists nonetheless

HMMMM could it be that in this particular case the intricacies of US politics have absolutely no influence at all

I'm not really sure where I mentioned the US at all in that? 

If you want to change copyright law.. talk to your congress. State, local, or national legislatures.

the writing's on the wall on this one, boy

[Blue Lion]

And if I rob some billionaire and give all his money away to every person in the country, more people benefit. It's still illegal.

(Gonna wait to see if someone gets it)

You can't just do something and say it helps more people, therefore it must be ok to do.

If something that helps a lot of people and doesn't hurt anyone isn't a good thing, then I don't know what is a good thing...

I don't know why that defense didn't work for them then. Oh wait, maybe because it isn't a defense.

You guys are very generous with other people's stuff in the efforts to help out.... yourselves.

[Blue Lion]

hmmm hmmm have you heard of this one particular party in sweden

the one that is less popular than the feminist party but exists nonetheless

HMMMM could it be that in this particular case the intricacies of US politics have absolutely no influence at all

I'm not really sure where I mentioned the US at all in that? 

If you want to change copyright law.. talk to your congress. State, local, or national legislatures.

the writing's on the wall on this one, boy

I ask you where I mentioned it and you just copy paste my post?

That still doesn't say where I mentioned the US.

[Janos]

hmmm hmmm have you heard of this one particular party in sweden

the one that is less popular than the feminist party but exists nonetheless

HMMMM could it be that in this particular case the intricacies of US politics have absolutely no influence at all

I'm not really sure where I mentioned the US at all in that? 

If you want to change copyright law.. talk to your congress. State, local, or national legislatures.

the writing's on the wall on this one, boy

I ask you where I mentioned it and you just copy paste my post?

That still doesn't say where I mentioned the US.

Congress
State legislature

Can't you seriously note your biases

[Blue Lion]

hmmm hmmm have you heard of this one particular party in sweden

the one that is less popular than the feminist party but exists nonetheless

HMMMM could it be that in this particular case the intricacies of US politics have absolutely no influence at all

I'm not really sure where I mentioned the US at all in that? 

If you want to change copyright law.. talk to your congress. State, local, or national legislatures.

the writing's on the wall on this one, boy

I ask you where I mentioned it and you just copy paste my post?

That still doesn't say where I mentioned the US.

Congress
State legislature

Can't you seriously note your biases

I said OR. As in "whichever". That's why I didn't say "and"

It's also pluralized. National LegislatureS.

I also left out dictators. But seriously, nitpick semantics. That makes the cause so much more.

[Polpolion]

And if I rob some billionaire and give all his money away to every person in the country, more people benefit. It's still illegal.

(Gonna wait to see if someone gets it)

You can't just do something and say it helps more people, therefore it must be ok to do.

If something that helps a lot of people and doesn't hurt anyone isn't a good thing, then I don't know what is a good thing...

I don't know why that defense didn't work for them then. Oh wait, maybe because it isn't a defense.

You guys are very generous with other people's stuff in the efforts to help out.... yourselves.

But it's not a defense for the type of thing that TPB does. It's not even a defense for normal cases because the only way to tell whether or not you would've ever bought the game is your own word.

It seems like you're acting that the verdicts of the current justice system are 100% hands down morally correct for these issues. They're not.

[Blue Lion]

But it's not a defense for the type of thing that TPB does. It's not even a defense for normal cases because the only way to tell whether or not you would've ever bought the game is your own word.

It seems like you're acting that the verdicts of the current justice system are 100% hands down morally correct for these issues. They're not.

Maybe you should be in the other thread with Liberator arguing that the morality for you is the morality for me? 

But on to the points of this post.

1. It matters not if they are moral. They are legal. You may think it is a travesty against morality, and that's totally your right. But quite frankly the only 2 "people" I'm going to listen to on the subject are the people who make the laws and the guy who owns the stuff.

2. I don't think it is moral. It's their work. You may think they do a piss poor job of handling it, but it's still theirs. It's not yours. To me the greater morality issue is you disregarding an owner of a work.

3. You're not going to sway anyone in power with "but it'll make us all happy if these people are forced to give us their works for free". It only hurts the overall cause here.

The more and more people steal and the harder and harder they fight back against it, the more likely it is the solution that comes from it will not be one that is best.

All of the things you guys worry about in regards to internet regulation could come to fruition. It'll be because of the actions of these people who pushed too hard in the wrong place.

[kode]

Well, actually, BL, it's what the piratbyrån and pirate party _is_ doing. How about you try and not put words in my posts I did not write for a change? This is the line I've been ****ing arguing all along, and you're still too thick to grasp it. The pirate party now has more members than 4 of the 7 parties in parliament. It is the only political party that is actually gaining members as opposed to losing them.

[Blue Lion]

Well, actually, BL, it's what the piratbyrån and pirate party _is_ doing. How about you try and not put words in my posts I did not write for a change? This is the line I've been ****ing arguing all along, and you're still too thick to grasp it. The pirate party now has more members than 4 of the 7 parties in parliament. It is the only political party that is actually gaining members as opposed to losing them.

Yea. IS doing. Not HAVE done.

People are arguing that prostitution be legal here. Guys don't go out and visit hookers and say "You can't do anything to me, I'm part of a party to rid this moral outrage!"

You'll get your ass thrown in jail, and rightfully so.

Am I to understand that this party has not rewritten the law regarding copyright yet?

[kode]

As for the discussion about whether it's optional or not to join the organisation representing artists, it really isn't. At least not here, as the organisation doing it does it by law backing it. You can't start up a competing organization - it'd be unlawful. If you do not join it, you can not get royalties for your records airing on the radio, you can not collaborate with members of the organization and you can not have your own CDs made without signing over your right to distribute to the organization. How would you suggest competing with that?