Author Topic: evolution argument  (Read 7766 times)

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Offline Turambar

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We can use Occam's razor to say the simplest system is one in which there isn't a God (adding a God makes it more complex) and therefore God does not exist.

Occam's Razor is a completely worthless instrument

Occam was just an emo kid.  He probably used Occam's razor to cut his wrists

personally, I prefer to use Mehrunes Razor.  Where Occam's Razor says that the most simple solution is usually the correct one, Mehrunes Razor says BURN DESTROY KILL
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Offline iamzack

  • 26
Some say we evolved from apes.          <---wrong
Some say God created us from earth.   <---partially right

truth is:

Our ancestors came from outer space some 150000 years ago, with space ships led by a huge Battlestar.
The origin of our race is Kobol, where God created us.
He also has a plan for us, it seems it involves nukes ( and for some very strange reason Snuffleupagus ), not sure though.

That's the truth. Face it. :P


You forgot the part where there were already humans here...
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Turambar

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I propose that "god" took some humans off of earth, moved them to kobol and lived with them for some time.  the humans then rebelled and moved off to start their 12 colonies, with the early cylons going off to their 13th.  Then, Battlestar Galactica happens.

What would blow my mind is if "god" is a goa'uld.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

  

Offline iamzack

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Why did the humans on kobol advance while the ones on earth didnt?
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Turambar

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Why did the humans on kobol advance while the ones on earth didnt?

because they had the gods/goa'uld helping them
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline iamzack

  • 26
that's stupid.

...


what's a goa'uld?
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Angelus

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that's stupid.

...


what's a goa'uld?

a oozy, halfway intelligent, very evil worm that enters your body and lives in your bowels.

It controls you, makes you strong and you get a voice like Darth Vader.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Eh, Goa'uld are a species of parasitic, sentient aliens that, once in adult stage, can enter another species' head, wrap themselves around the brain of the host and control them and also give the host body many abilities, some considered unnatural. The larval stage of the species does live in the abdominal pouch of the Jaffa, but not in their bowels per ce.

Then there are the Tok'ra which are basically the same species as Goa'uld but their relation to the host is a mutual symbiosis from which both benefit, not just the snake thingy.


Geez, I don't even watch Stargåte... :blah:
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Angelus

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Eh, Goa'uld are a species of parasitic, sentient aliens that, once in adult stage, can enter another species' head, wrap themselves around the brain of the host and control them and also give the host body many abilities, some considered unnatural. The larval stage of the species does live in the abdominal pouch of the Jaffa, but not in their bowels per ce.

Then there are the Tok'ra which are basically the same species as Goa'uld but their relation to the host is a mutual symbiosis from which both benefit, not just the snake thingy.


Geez, I don't even watch Stargåte... :blah:


I've seen only the movie and one or two episodes, didn't know the "live in the head thing", which btw makes this
species even more...icky.

 
We can use Occam's razor to say the simplest system is one in which there isn't a God (adding a God makes it more complex) and therefore God does not exist.

We can use Occam's razor to say the simplest system is one in which there are no laws of physics (adding them makes a system more complex than one where everything happens due to >the will of God<) and therefore God does exist. This also shows that laws of physics don't exist.
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Offline Solatar

  • 211
I know you guys are enjoying yourselves ripping apart my Occam's razor "proof" (in BIG quotation marks), and I hate to take that fun away from you. But if you noticed my other statement was equally as retarded and made even less logical sense.

Point: I know Occam's razor doesn't actually prove anything with regards to God. :p I also said that fossils were put here to test our faith, go rip on that one some too. ;)

 

Offline BloodEagle

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We can use Occam's razor to say the simplest system is one in which there isn't a God (adding a God makes it more complex) and therefore God does not exist.

We can use Occam's razor to say the simplest system is one in which there are no laws of physics (adding them makes a system more complex than one where everything happens due to >the will of God<) and therefore God does exist. This also shows that laws of physics don't exist.

 :wtf:

You're not supposed to use The Great Razor that way.

Seriously, quit it.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Occam's razor deals with probabilities, never absolutes (like nothing in science basically).

It can be said that if two equally accurate hypotheses for some phenomenon exist, the simpler one is more probably the closer one to being correct, but it might not be the case - it's just a probability.


However, as simple" as God of Gaps is as an explanation to everything from thunderbolt and lightning to how computers work, it's simply not a valid scientific hypothesis as long as it's just a gap filled with Wizard, which means that inteligent dasein and creationism are not even worth an argument really, as long as they don't have accurate, fundamentally falsifiable data about the manipulator, designer or God.

Occam's razor works fine when the hypotheses are made on similar level. Comparing evolution and creationism is the same as would be comparing gravity in general theory of relativity and Aristotle's mechanics.


On metaphysical level you could, however, use the Occam's razor to compare the idea of the universe spontaneously spawning into existence, as opposed to the concept of universe requiring something or someone (aka God) to wish it into existence and make it so. The claims are, so to speak, on same level with each other, and so it is possible to compare them to each other with Occam's razor; they also have about the same amount of falsifiability (except that universe proves it's existence all the time, while a separate God being does not).

Quite obviously the latter version is more complex since it involves more variables and doesn't reduce the amount of unanswered questions. Which means that from scientific point of view, universe becoming into existence on it's own is more probable explanation than God hypothesis.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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inteligent dasein


This post has received the official Martin Heidegger Seal of Approval.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline WeatherOp

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It won't work Bobb. There are only 3-4 people left who might argue against evolution and most of them have done it before and had their arses handed back to them for trying.

The rest of us have more or less decided there are more fun things to do than trying to hammer a brick wall through a computer screen, like spending time with the girl I love which is totally awesome.  :D

Well, what do you know, I've evolved, I guess there is a little truth to evolution after all.  :p
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Offline Liberator

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What I don't understand is how the Laws of Physics precludes the existence of a Creator.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Turambar

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What I don't understand is how the Laws of Physics precludes the existence of a Creator.

it's not really 'precludes the existence'

it's that there is no evidence, so we go on assuming there isn't any Creator because there's no reason to believe there is.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Before the thread gets too boring


 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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That image is flawed.

Uruk-Hai were confirmed result of Inteligent Dasein [I knew I had seen that somewhere, Ford, but for all the powers of the universe couldn't remember where!]; it could be even accurately said that A Wizard Did It. More specifically, Sauron the Witch used Orcs as source material, and no one really has clear idea what the Orcs are - some claim they are corrupted Eldar; from this pool of genetic material Sauron created the first Uruks, and Saruman the White made them even harder, better, faster, stronger and resistant to sunlight as well, presumably by combining features from the race of Men or by some other magicks - he was most likely capable of great things as a Maia, even though his powers were not comparable to Sauron's.

On the other hand, the typical member of the Race of Men shown on the lower part of the image was the second race of [sentient] beings created by Eru Ilúvatar, the One God of cosmos and creator of Arda and all the Ainur and Valar. This process is largely hidden, but from the end results it's clearly apparent that Ilúvatar did better job.

Regardless, the argument completely fails because Men did not evolve from Uruk-Hai, and looting is a very common behaviour in almost all species that come upon a large, abandoned stash of goods, not to mention very common in war time with or without rules of engagement in place.

Furthermore, the date that the author gives for Uruk-Hai performing looting is completely unrealistic; by that time, all Uruk had been either extinct or in hiding for a long time, and no reports of them are in historic records from that time.


So you see, I verily suspect the credibility of this claim that looting has evolved, and even more so the evolution of looters.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Dilmah G

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I just got the image from a chain mail okay :P