[Mobius]

Sentencing people to death in FS represents a purely militaristic feeling which is somewhat close to reality. I wonder, however, if at the time of FreeSpace 2 humanity would still rely on death penalties to solve problems.

Even now the validity/effectiveness of death penalties is questioned, and the number of countries that refuse it is increasing at an encouraging rate.

If we don't consider canon episodes like Bosch's anger towards the CO of the Sevrin, what do you think a civilized government and its military would be using when dealing with guilty people? Do you really think death penalties will be of any use in the future?

IMO, it depends on the situation. Although the mankind featured in FS2 is supposed to be much more advanced than us, death penalties could still be used in a number of situations, like (very) high treason. Overall, however, I doubt it'd be widely used because, IMO, it's always better to let people reveal as much as possible about the "issues" they were involved in. I don't see the point, for example, in sentencing a captive member of an opposing faction so early - interrogating him/her for a prolonged period of time may be of tactical importance.

Not to mention how captives can be exchanged with prisoners, other captives, and "favors". Imagine something like Bosch's request when he asks to jump unaided to Sirius.

[General Battuta]

Try shooting your wingmen and check out what happens.

Other than that, I'd say, if it fits in your campaign...

[Mobius]

I asked for a theoretically plausible within the FS Universe. No reference to campaigns.

Even shooting wingmen may not be enough to sentence someone to death shortly after the mission. A wise Command, in theory, should try to find out what happens to pilots who go mad and react accordingly.

During the mission, however, shooting down a traitor may have a vital importance - an operation can't be disrupted by a single pilot.

[General Battuta]

So, you're saying...criminals deserve a trial?

Judging by the general 'gritty realism' of FS on a military level, I'd say summary court-martials are not out of the question.

[wistler]

The overall civilian feeling towards capital punishment doesn't really matter in FS, because you're in the military at a time of war. So if you open fire on your wingmen then you will be treated as a traitor and dealt with because you risk the mission.

Theres nothing to stop Commanders learning all they can about a certain situation and then executing. That's what hearings and trials are far (AFAIK).

Bosh's anger at a certain CO can't really be taking into account because he is in most respects de facto leader of the NTF, and a working legal system within the NTF would be unlikely. Therefore his word is God in a certain respect.

As for the idea of trading captives, I'd assume that the GTVA doesn't negotiate with terrorists (NTF). Real life situations like this have also happened in the past of course, I believe Hitler tried to trade a number of Jewish people in return for military trucks and petrol from the Allies but they refused out right.
In FS it would weaken the GTVA's position if they were seen acknowledging the NTF through diplomatic means.

[NGTM-1R]

Absolutely. Very few countries do not have laws on the books for the use of the death penalty in espionage and treason cases. (Point of fact, I checked, the US, France, and Germany still have laws on the books for use of the death penalty in desertion cases, but none of them would ever actually use it. Soldiers are expensive to train.) The current Universal Code of Military Justice specifies death or life imprisonment for murder or rape commited in time of war.

The GTA/PVE spent 14 years at war, which generally leads to a tightening of laws and harsher sentencing. That happened with both World Wars as an example.

Prisoner exchange is unlikely. Governments have drifted away from it and I see no compelling reason why they would go back.

[Getter Robo G]

Plus keep in mind... The two foes of Terrans were other species.

Premeditated Treason against Humanity should be punishable by death.


Later, with the GTVA, the foes are Shivans only. So same level of Treason against the two allied races is punishable by death.

Why do you want to feed, clothe, care for, and guard traitors you can never ever trust again? The time, money, and resources are not logical.

Seriously, I'd trust a mass murderer probably, before I'd trust a traitor. Especially if you can reason with the guy. "Hey man, I would never kill a person for those damn Shivans. Can we work a deal here?"

Of course I am the Shivan's inside man and thus love to direct attention from myself with my vocal "anti-traitor" views...

(All glory to the Brood Queen) - something I picked up from Drinky Crow...
 

[deathfun]

If someone shot me repeatedly without trying to stop... I don't think I would simply go
"Okay okay... let us discuss why you are doing this... please stop... your damaging my hull.. c'mon now... stop it..."


I would do what they do. SCREW YOU ******** YOU ARE GOING DOWN

[Krelus]

I don't see why not. Capital punishment has existed for thousands of years, I can't imagine it'll be gone for good in another three hundred or so.

[Uchuujinsan]

Point of fact, I checked, the US, France, and Germany still have laws on the books for use of the death penalty in desertion cases, but none of them would ever actually use it. Soldiers are expensive to train.

Don't know where you got this, in case of Germany it's certainly not true.
In the constitution is written "There is no death penalty." (§ 102 GG: 'Die Todesstrafe ist abgeschafft',  source) , overruling any other existing laws. According to § 16 WstG, it's punishable by up to 5 years in prison. source


Well, back to the matter of the death penalty:
Society doesn't evolve that much over a mere 300 years. You are also assuming that death penalty is bad/ineffective, and there are still many people who would currently disagree. And if they are right, there is no reason to say it would become prevelant again in a few hundred years.

[Knight Templar]

I don't know what all this talk about the death penalty being ineffective is about... it's pretty damn effective in a military setting. Fun thing about militaries is that they get to make their own laws.

[Herra Tohtori]

Death sentence != execution.

[eliex]

I don't know what all this talk about the death penalty being ineffective is about... it's pretty damn effective in a military setting. Fun thing about militaries is that they get to make their own laws.

Loyalty through fear!

[wistler]

I don't agree with Capital punishment in real life, but in FS military it makes sense. Can you imagine the risk you run with a traitor whose opening fire on his wingmen to try and coax him into the hanger deck of an expensive Destroyer with thousands of people on board 

[NGTM-1R]

Don't know where you got this, in case of Germany it's certainly not true.
In the constitution is written "There is no death penalty." (§ 102 GG: 'Die Todesstrafe ist abgeschafft',  source) , overruling any other existing laws. According to § 16 WstG, it's punishable by up to 5 years in prison. source

Legal precedence; the constitution overrides other laws, but it does not erase them. The desertion penalty law predates the one in the constitution. It still exists, it simply cannot be used.

[Uchuujinsan]

Ehm, not exactly.
There are no federal laws for death penalty in case of desertion (§ 16 WStG is the law dealing with desertion).
There are state laws I think in 2 states (bavaria and hesse iirc) that allow death penalty, but here it's the case with legal precedence.

If there would be federal laws allowing death penalty, they would be unconstitutional, and not simply be overruled, but had to be changed.
So in this case, the constitution changes other laws in short terms (via the Federal Constitutional Court of Germany)

[Mobius]

I don't see why not. Capital punishment has existed for thousands of years, I can't imagine it'll be gone for good in another three hundred or so.

Very, very, very bogus.

The world is slowly, but surely, forgetting about death sentences. At the time of FreeSpace, sentencing to death should sound primitive. We have death sentences in the series, but it doesn't mean that a civilized mankind of the future would rely on it for a series of reasons.

I don't agree with Capital punishment in real life, but in FS military it makes sense. Can you imagine the risk you run with a traitor whose opening fire on his wingmen to try and coax him into the hanger deck of an expensive Destroyer with thousands of people on board 

Ha-hem, what about imprisoning him? The contrary of "sentencing to death" surely isn't "let the guilty stay where he is"...

[Knight Templar]

I don't see why not. Capital punishment has existed for thousands of years, I can't imagine it'll be gone for good in another three hundred or so.

Very, very, very bogus.

The world is slowly, but surely, forgetting about death sentences. At the time of FreeSpace, sentencing to death should sound primitive. We have death sentences in the series, but it doesn't mean that a civilized mankind of the future would rely on it for a series of reasons.

What "death sentences" in FS are you even talking about? It's kind of important to the debate. If you're talking about being called out as a traitor, well traitors are usually always killed, if not immediately retaliated upon in a combat zone. There's not really much room to arrest someone when you're flying spaceships in space with hella guns on them.

If you're talking about the NTF, they're crazy rebels. Rebels kill people. Duh.

Furthermore, you already answered your own question in your original post; It's a military setting, they follow martial law, or at least some form of military justice protocol.

[Mobius]

Wouldn't the modern military protocols become obsolete in a few hundred years?

Also, what's with the NTF being a bunch of crazy rebels? There are three legitimate governments behind the NTF, with Bosch acting as main leader. Sirius, Regulus and Polaris once were important GTVA systems.

[Knight Templar]

Wouldn't the modern military protocols become obsolete in a few hundred years?

Also, what's with the NTF being a bunch of crazy rebels? There are three legitimate governments behind the NTF, with Bosch acting as main leader. Sirius, Regulus and Polaris once were important GTVA systems.

- No. The Military is not social progress. The Military (any military of any society) is going to be the least progressive aspect bar none. Militaries stand on history, tradition, and ceremony, not feel-good political correctness.

- Did you miss the part in FS2 where Bosch talks about himself stirring up essentially racism and bigotry for no reason other than ETAK? That's what's with the NTF being a bunch of crazy rebels.