[karx11erx]

Alright. Misunderstandings removed.

And I don't think I'm a genious (if I was I would probably work on something different than modding old computer game classics - though you never know ...).

[AusRED5]

If you were, we'd have Descent4! 

[karx11erx]

I could do a Descent 4, simply by e.g. modding the UT3 engine. But a game doesn't just consist of a rendering and game engine. It needs textures, models, sounds ... and we simply don't have these resources (or only in very incomplete form).

FS on the other hand has hires models and textures and would just need an engine overhaul (the engine also is simpler - just 3D models in a big open "room").

[aRaven]

stop the talk, and get to work already, old man

[General Battuta]

If you could pull this off without destroying compatibility with current content, you'd be a hero. As I understand it (and I'm not a coder, so anyone can step in to correct me), the graphics code is so gruesome that it's blocking hopes of getting things like stencil shadows in-game. A rewrite could open up all sorts of possibilities.

And the FS2Open community is very active, so your work would earn you the adulation of the masses.

[portej05]

Gruesome is an understatement. I've just had a shifty (I think spelunk is more appropriate) through the graphics code for mantis 1922. I've given up

[karx11erx]

stop the talk, and get to work already, old man

Oh boy ... ... at least I have hair where you have yet to grow some.

Battuta,

destroying compatibility would render any such efforts rather useless, don't you think? I'll use an example from D2X-XL to explain the plan: It reads the regular model data from the standard game data, but then converts it to a format that is more suitable for OpenGL rendering. To speed up game launch the converted model data is stored in D2X-XL's cache folder (a special subfolder where it stores all kinds of dynamically precomputed stuff, like level meshes, lightmaps etc.)

The internal texture manager has also been completely rewritten, but D2X-XL can still read the original game textures and stuff them in the new texture manager.

That would be the approach.

But - first I would have to clean up the code, put stuff in C++ classes, and get a good understanding of the code base.

And I haven't promised anything yet. Just thinking aloud.

[Mongoose]

Y'know, why is it that I look at this thread, all I can think of is, "Hey, it's Diedel being Diedel again!"  And then I chuckle quietly to myself and shake my head...

[karx11erx]

Mongoose,

What I see when looking at this thread is a discussion about the FS code base and my (potential) position related to it, plus a very superfluous flamebait post prior to this one. I really don't know what the descentbb habit of making below the belt remarks has to do here. There are few things I resent more than dumb ass comments like yours.

Are you Top Gun from PlanetDescent? (That's the guy who attacked me in the most arrogant and hypocritical way on descentbb for fighting back after having been harrassed for months and years there. I tend to only forget such things after a sincere and honest apology, and I have found that an amazing number of people is not capable of something apparently as simple as that).

One thing is for sure: If I have to deal with asshats like I've met on the dbb here, I will certainly not work on the FS2 code. So if you do not have anything significant to contribute, why don't you STFU instead of making slimey insinuations.

Yeah, Diedel, exactly, hardened, honed, sharpened and polished by years of abuse in certain very unfriendly and arrogant internet forums with people who mostly are occupied with their own colonoscopy, as someone put it in my forum just lately. Places quite different from this one, I hoped.

[General Battuta]

Stay out of General Discussion!

[Rhymes]

Karx11erx: don't let him bug you.  You yourself called it a flamebait, and yet you took it.  If it's really that stupid and superfluous, then why dignify it with a response?  Far better to just ignore him and continue having an intelligent discussion with some of the SCP coders, which is what we were having.

Mongoose: You obviously have nothing constructive to say, therefore I say this: Get out, and

Stay out of General Discussion!

[chief1983]

Actually I read one comment of yours on the previous page that reminded me of another member who stopped by recently with some code changes, and I would probably say that members like that are the reason that we do have a bit of an unwritten evaluation process for opening up repo write access.  Any community is going to have that.  Granted some might be more intimidated than others by the comments you've made, but around here that's actually quite welcome.  You're right that the code has always been a big hack-a-thon in some places, and the bolt on parts haven't made it any better over the years.  Some areas have seen significant rewrites since the original release though.  Software development in general has been plagued by a lack of engineering processes in most organizations, Carmack is an exception to that rule though, and not a counter-point.  Volition is no exception.  Their developer application test is still comprised of how quirky of a solution  you can come up with for some trivial programming issues in pure C.  They don't ask you anything about OOP, etc.  They're looking for old school hack programmers who can get things out the door quickly under the gun, as far as I can tell.  Some things never change, as I only applied for them a little over a year ago.

Anyway, a rewrite on the scale you're talking about just begs that someone should bring up the Ferrium project.  It was to be a from-scratch recreation of the FS engine, fully backwards compatible with the FS2 engine but yet released under a truly open source license.  The website is stil up at Alliance Productions on Sourceforge.  If a true rewrite were to be done, doing it without actually using the original source code would be ideal because then we'd be out from under the restrictions of the Interplay/Volition license.  Just something to think about.  I'm not going to go around saying "we need you, please help us Obi-Wan" like some of these jokers seem to be doing ( ), but I won't say that having another engineering-minded coder to really tear into things wouldn't be appreciated.  I'm sure that if this were something you wanted to do, you'd do it with or without our blessing and support, and I'd much rather you were working with us than off on your own because of some silly reason or another.

And GB is right, stay out of GD and you should be mostly ok.  Keep in mind this is a fairly large and diverse community, and you shouldn't ever have to 'deal with' asshats, as often as they might try to poke their heads in your business.  That's what the 'ignore' feature is for.

[Flipside]

I think the best course at this stage is for people to discuss the code, and leave opinions out of it, this is not a question of what people think of karx, it's a question of how the SCP team and he can work together and create a better product, so this should really be a discussion mainly involving the SCP guys and karx him/herself.

If people want to add comments pertaining to the code, then that's fine, but let's save the usual HLP cynicism and sarcasm until karx is more settled in, and more aware of who to take seriously, and who not to

[karx11erx]

I am not askng for repo access. It wouldn't make any sense, given the massive changes I would have to do. I would rather put the source code in a separate repo, and should I ever do it and get it done, merge it back (or merge changes from your trunk into it).

I know that you are not begging me on your knees to redeem you from the current FS code's flaws.

At least most of you. (Sorry, I just had to say that, it was itching too much)

[Flipside]

Well, either way, it's a bit unfair for people to start with the baiting when you're still pretty new to the community, though, in a somewhat convoluted way, it's kind of a compliment, but obviously, it doesn't feel like it when you are on the receiving end

[karx11erx]

If Mongoose == Top Gun from PD, then it wasn't a compliment at all. Let's leave it at that.

Flamebaiting or flaming never is ok. I didn't attack anybody here, and if people cannot live with the way I express myself then it should be easy enough to avoid me.

[karajorma]

I am not askng for repo access. It wouldn't make any sense, given the massive changes I would have to do. I would rather put the source code in a separate repo, and should I ever do it and get it done, merge it back (or merge changes from your trunk into it).

To be honest, a branch in our repo would make more sense than having one of your own. That way the rest of us would keep up to date on any changes you made and could make sure that we don't work at cross-purposes.

[chief1983]

I actually meant to suggest that but got distracted while typing it up.  Although if it were a complete rewrite, a separate repo might be better than a branch, since it would be an entirely unique code base.  The repo could be hosted alongside fs2open maybe, but a full rewrite isn't really a branch, unless it's done incrementally I suppose, but that's probably not possible.

[Flipside]

If Mongoose == Top Gun from PD, then it wasn't a compliment at all. Let's leave it at that.

Flamebaiting or flaming never is ok. I didn't attack anybody here, and if people cannot live with the way I express myself then it should be easy enough to avoid me.

Which is why I suggested we keep comments limited to subject

I'd say a Repo alongside the FSO code would be the best idea as well, simply for cross-reference purposes,

[karx11erx]

If I would use my own repo, it would be publicly accessible (read), no worries.