Author Topic: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?  (Read 13880 times)

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Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
I like it, but I've never seen any of the actual ST eps, the movie appeals to the actual next generation though I admit.

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
It's a new timeline created by Nero's interference. Anything could happen.

Indeed... including breaking with the tradition of clear character motivations and believable plots and instead offering an action thrillride with "plotholes of fortunate convenience" galore.

The problem of the movie isn't that it creates a new timeline... it's that it constantly requires the viewer to make huge leaps of faith within the new timeline.
It really got out of hand in the 2nd half of the movie ... the first half was actually quite good... so i guess you could indeed say they got it "half right" LOL.

After this movie the real question won't be whether Trek Fans may also be BSG fans, but whether Trek fans can still be Trek fans.

Spoiler:
So Kirk got stranded on a barren ice-planet... , despite it being just a wee bit untypical for Spock or any Starfleet officer to make such a decision, even when emotionally distressed, it was quite fortunate really, because it allowed the producers to re-use some clone of their previous cloverfield movie monster to chase Kirk around to the ohs and ahs of the audience. So now Kirk is stuck on an ice Planet? Well yes... but fortunately , out of all the places he could have landed, he landed within walking distance of the one cave that future "old Spock" choose as his living quarters as he was abandoned on the same planet. Yah well, so now Spock and Kirk are stuck on the same planet right ? Well yes... but fortunately  there is also a Federation outpost within walking distance, which is fortunately  crewed by Scotty, who in the future was fortunately  able to figure out how to beam people across interstellar distances, which is really fortunate, because fortunately Spock brought Scotty's formula from the future so they can beam themselves back to the Enterprise which is currently in warp. Fortunately this technology will propably be forgotten if there ever is another movie because otherwise the Federation would have a tactical and strategic advantage that would allow them to quickly take over the whole universe with little resistance.

Know what i mean ?;) It has nothing to do with the timeline switch... it is simply a very very very badly constructed plot that has holes in it all over.
It's constructed like a 5 year olds ramblings, but nothing you could call a "well made plot" with a straight face.

As someone else aptly put it: It's like they had some kinda committee that got told what was gonna happen next and then had to come up with whatever bull***** reason they could think of to make it happen.
Spoiler:
Aright! So next.. we need Kirk to fight a monster! That will be cool right!?
Yeah well, but he s on a ship!
Ok we got to get Kirk off the Ship!
Lets have Spock space him!
Woha cool! Lets do it!!
Wait, how does he get back to the ship?
Well he can totally meet Spock there ! From the future! and Scotty will beam him back!
Wait, Scotty is there too ?
Well of course! How else are they gonna get beamed back to the ship ?
WARGGRAHGRAGRL ??????
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 01:24:10 pm by Mikes »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
I agree with all that. My remark about timelines wasn't meant to justify the poor writing.

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
I agree with all that. My remark about timelines wasn't meant to justify the poor writing.

Ah i hope ya didn't think i was attacking/flaming you there. In that case i'd owe you an apology.
It's more like your remark gave me an excuse/a tagline to rant about all the things that annoyed me in the movie ;) (lol)


As far as the old show goes... i know at least one person who got their PHD in literature by writing about Shakespearian influences in Star Trek.
The old Star Trek quite often tackled with classic themes and moral questions and it mostly featured logical plots with believable character motivations as well...
... it certainly didn't appeal to everyone (not to me particularily either - sure, i watched it now and then, but never really cared that much) ...
... but in retrospect one has to appreciate that it wasn't just a silly action thrillride without any point at all and plotholes big enough to fly the Enterprise through.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 01:46:09 pm by Mikes »

 

Offline Meleardil

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
My very short opinion:
It is a good movie...on the level of J.I.Joe for kids. Otherwise it is among the worst stories I have ever seen. It totality screwed up decades of startrek series and all that without ANY good reason.

With more words:
The good part: CGI was very nice...Oh! Did I say was...my mistake...I wanted to say it WOULD have been if not for the idiot director. The best action scenes were rendered meaningless and unenjoyable by the insane cut and the shaky camera movement (movement? the camera must have bounce during the shots like a rattle in the hand of an insanely hysterical baby!). For example the first battle... could have been epic if you could see at least 1 second straight action. The longest cut must have been like, lets see, 3-4 frames long? Maximum 8, but definitely not longer. I tried to follow the battle by the SOUND dammit! I know what happen ONLY because later in the story one character explains it to another.

The actors were OK, dramaturgy nice, CGI is excellent. Story is a crap (well, MegaCrap!), cut is a disaster. Something I would buy on blueray ONLY for the sake of FullHD screenshots, but definitely NOT for watching it over and over again. One time was just more than enough. I hope I can forget this story soon, and shake off its effect on me.
"I think it is impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves."
Speaker for the Dead

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
The actors were OK, dramaturgy nice, CGI is excellent. Story is a crap (well, MegaCrap!), cut is a disaster. Something I would buy on blueray ONLY for the sake of FullHD screenshots, but definitely NOT for watching it over and over again. One time was just more than enough. I hope I can forget this story soon, and shake off its effect on me.

Conerning the CGI...  is it just me or does the new Enterprise look like (as i heard it said elsewhere) a pregnant guppy lol ?

Aside from the phenomenal failures of the plot pointed out above that annoyed me to no end, there seemed to be something very wrong about the basic shape of the new ship as well.
CGI "quality/fidelity" only takes you so far if the basic shape of the ship looks somehow hilarious lol.

I mean... THIS! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aON_SnlcPA4 would have been a design that would have done the original from ToS some justice - and that's a fan project mind you...  yet, it would have looked several orders of magnitude "cooler" than the "pregnant guppy" they presented us with. lol ;)

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
As a non Trekkie the only glaring hole I noticed was the "Spock going back in time" thing. And that was a BIG hole. About the camera movement though, I'm a real fan of fast moving camera.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
As a non Trekkie the only glaring hole I noticed was the "Spock going back in time" thing. And that was a BIG hole.
As a Trekkie, I can inform you that that sort of thing happened at least once a season and in at least two of the previous movies.  Nothing to blink at. :p

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
I see, I see  ;)

 

Offline Vidmaster

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
it's that it constantly requires the viewer to make huge leaps of faith within the new timeline
  (...)
it is simply a very very very badly constructed plot that has holes in it all over.
It's constructed like a 5 year olds ramblings, but nothing you could call a "well made plot" with a straight face.

That's what I was saying all the previous pages ago  :lol:
The second half has more plotholes than actual plot.
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Offline Flipside

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
I thought it was a good movie.

True, it had some big plotholes etc, but I enjoyed watching it, there were bits where you laughed, cried, and punched the air, which is what a movie needs, I suspended belief with Star Trek years ago, that's what Fantasy is all about, so I'd find it kind of off saying 'this imaginary story is inconsistent with another imaginary story', that'd feel odd.

I hear they are making a sequel, what would, of course, make this super-awesome would be for the Federation,
Spoiler:
without the pacifist influence of Vulcan
, to turn expansionist, and for Spock to grow a little goatee beard, then it'd not only make an awesome movie, but also satisfy those who crave for continuity with the old series ;)



[attachment deleted by ninja]

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
I thought it was a good movie.

True, it had some big plotholes etc, but I enjoyed watching it, there were bits where you laughed, cried, and punched the air, which is what a movie needs, I suspended belief with Star Trek years ago, that's what Fantasy is all about, so I'd find it kind of off saying 'this imaginary story is inconsistent with another imaginary story', that'd feel odd.

I hear they are making a sequel, what would, of course, make this super-awesome would be for the Federation,
Spoiler:
without the pacifist influence of Vulcan
, to turn expansionist, and for Spock to grow a little goatee beard, then it'd not only make an awesome movie, but also satisfy those who crave for continuity with the old series ;)



There was a thread a while back asking what the Federation needs to do to be more militarily effective, I said they should all grow goatees with a link to that pic.  Suffice to say the OP unfortunately did not see the cunningness of that plan.
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 
Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
If Starfleet wanted to be more militarily effective, they should use stop using wimpy phasers and start using powerful molecule-destroying disruptors, replace photon torpedoes with antimatter torpedoes, use power armor, and recruit more redshirts to be used as plot armor for the main characters.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
Photon torpedoes are antimatter torpedoes, and phasers do destroy molecules. The difference between a phaser and a disruptor isn't actually all that clear to me (outside of Starfleet Command.)

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
I don't think there is a lot of difference, apart from the fact that Disruptors are more 'nasty' in Technojargon term, but they do seem to work on the same theory. I've heard tell that Phasers are more efficient against things like shields than Disruptors are (Which led to the Federation Victory in the Klingon War), though that may have been FASA, and hence, non-cannon, and, of course, the fact that disruptors tend to fire bolts of energy, whereas phasers tended to fire streams as far as SFX were concerned.

 
Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
Starfleet could still use more disposable redshirts to protect the people with useful skills from being killed.  Redshirt = walking plot armor.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
Ensign Expendable and Lieutenant Plotdevice, as we used to call them ;)

Basically, if they were unknown, and on an away team, they were usually pretty much screwed.

 
Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
I'm more sort of wondering if the question should be "Are Trek fans now Confused about Whether They Should Be Star Wars Fans as Well?"

In a few ways, I found myself thinking back to Attack of the Clones (I'd rather not have been able to do that).

 

Offline YIIMM

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
Ensign Expendable and Lieutenant Plotdevice, as we used to call them ;)

Basically, if they were unknown, and on an away team, they were usually pretty much screwed.

Spoiler:
As soon as the third guy doing the skydive mentioned how excited he was, I noticed his shirt colour

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Are Battlestar Fans Trek fans?
Spoiler:
As soon as the third guy doing the skydive mentioned how excited he was, I noticed his shirt colour

Spoiler:
oh yeh... and of course they gave all the detonators to that guy too so Kirk and Sulu had to wrestle with Romulans and then blow the drill up with weapons fire after Sulu got to show off his Sword...  :wtf:     thinking of it... that scene was a huge sign of things to come in the rest of the movie LOL [/spoilers]