[ShadowGorrath]

Eh. . . No. I just asked for some images and info that I couldn't find. I'll still have to get the needed info out of what you posted, translate it and make a presentation. Thanks for the help.

[Mika]

Remember how long the motion of planets had to be observed that the orbitual movement relation became apparent? Galaxies have not been observed that long. It is kind of interesting that the rotation speeds of the galaxies is explained by saying there is dark matter/energy rather than considering that the theory must be wrong.

[Turambar]

I don't think they think that "dark matter" is any specific stuff, but more like, "we don't know what this is, but it has a measurable and quantifiable gravitational pull on these stars, so we'll call it 'dark matter' as a placeholder"

[Mika]

By the way, by looking at the Wikipedia page about unsolved problems in Physics, one tends to feel that what they are talking about (especially in cosmology) is more Mathematics than Physics. I personally dislike quite a lot of talk about symmetry-something nature of something. However, there are then some more interesting problems like the glass transition point, turbulence and sonoluminescence.

What I don't understand is that how can the cosmology researchers do their job while fully understanding they will most likely never see their theory tested within their life time?

[General Battuta]

By the way, by looking at the Wikipedia page about unsolved problems in Physics, one tends to feel that what they are talking about (especially in cosmology) is more Mathematics than Physics. I personally dislike quite a lot of talk about symmetry-something nature of something. However, there are then some more interesting problems like the glass transition point, turbulence and sonoluminescence.

What I don't understand is that how can the cosmology researchers do their job while fully understanding they will most likely never see their theory tested within their life time?

They can test a lot of things when the LHC is online.

And physics is mathematics. The problem of symmetry breaking comes up all the time in day-to-day life. For instance, let's say you have a bunch of water. It's fairly symmetrical on the molecular level. But when that water freezes, it must break symmetry and form into a crystalline grid.

That's exactly what happens to the universe as it cools down (in some models.) Symmetry is broken, causing formerly unified forces (gravity, EM, so on) to appear as different things.

[Mika]

And physics is mathematics.

 

That's a pretty bold statement.

The problem of symmetry breaking comes up all the time in day-to-day life. For instance, let's say you have a bunch of water. It's fairly symmetrical on the molecular level. But when that water freezes, it must break symmetry and form into a crystalline grid.

This is exactly what I meant. The talk about breaking symmetry hides the underlying physics.

[General Battuta]

I don't think I understand your objection, then.

[Mongoose]

And physics is mathematics.

 

That's a pretty bold statement.

I prefer to think of their relation in terms of this, particularly the hover text.

[ThesaurusRex]

What would you guy propose astronomers do? There's not a lot that can be done in the field of astronomy while being closely attached to a star which disperses and distorts cosmic rays and particles. An even greater disadvantage to the field of astronomy is that the majority of the instruments are on earth. There's not much that can be done in astronomy right now except theorize stuff and think of clever ways to try to test them.

[Kosh]

www.universetoday.com

[watsisname]

What would you guy propose astronomers do? There's not a lot that can be done in the field of astronomy while being closely attached to a star which disperses and distorts cosmic rays and particles. An even greater disadvantage to the field of astronomy is that the majority of the instruments are on earth. There's not much that can be done in astronomy right now except theorize stuff and think of clever ways to try to test them.

[nitpick]I believe if you replace 'astronomy' with 'cosmology', then sure.  Astronomy is a pretty huge field and there's boatloads of research being done these days. [/nitpick]

[BlackDove]

.......copy.........paste........



I just love the image really.

[Flipside]

It is a rather cool animation, truth be told.

[BengalTiger]

But the Canis Majoris is merely a pixel in this photo:

http://www.ee.columbia.edu/~shane/img/hst_galaxy.jpg

And to show how small the above is, here's this photo:

http://z-e-r-o.up.seesaa.net/image/Hubble_Ultra_Deep_Field_Black_point_edit.jpg

[BlackDove]

But the Canis Majoris is merely a pixel in this photo:

http://www.ee.columbia.edu/~shane/img/hst_galaxy.jpg

And to show how small the above is, here's this photo:

http://z-e-r-o.up.seesaa.net/image/Hubble_Ultra_Deep_Field_Black_point_edit.jpg

You're totally right. The image I posted was bull****. You are the king, forever.

*yawn*

[castor]

Bah! All this is just pebbles if only 4% of the matter in the universe is actually observable.

[Mika]

I prefer to think of their relation in terms of this, particularly the hover text.

I personally like that xkcd strip.

Personally I think that Mathematics and Physics are not the same thing. They are really not even on the same level.

[Mika]

Oh one more thing about those symmetry thingies. First you would need to define what does "symmetry" mean in the case of basic forces. Saying it's the symmetry that is breaking doesn't really even describe the actual physical processes that happen during icing. That is actually a larger problem in the Universities nowadays, quite a lot of simple ideas that led to discoveries have been hidden under a pile of massive amounts of maths, starting from Mechanics. I don't mean that the Maths is unnecessary, on the contrary, you need to calculate numbers to be able to give estimates, but that many things are much more clear when one can actually see them happening.

[redsniper]

Physics is just a mathematical model that we invent to try and approximate reality.

[General Battuta]

Physics is just a mathematical model that we invent to try and approximate reality.

Yeah, that's my view...and that the fundamental structures of the universe are mathematical.