[Scotty]

Fair enough.

[Mikes]

A strange game. The only way to win is not to play.

http://www.introversion.co.uk/defcon/home.html

Enjoy. lol. 

[Nuke]

yay nuckear war, il get the hot dogs and marshmallows

[Mongoose]

A lot of the points about North Korea actually using a nuclear weapon on a neighboring state are rendered largely moot by the fact that, at their current levels, it'll take several years' worth of research to master the miniaturization techniques required to mount an effective warhead on a ballistic missile.  I'm also fairly certain that any attempt to deliver a crude Little-Boy-esque device via bomber (does NK even have any bombers with that sort of capability?) could be easily detected and neutralized.  The same scenario would most likely hold true for any sort of ground invasion of the country, provided the invading forces didn't just decide to waltz up to some sort of ground-based apparatus.

Now, that having been said, I'm of the opinion that the world shouldn't twiddle its thumbs until NK does possess that capability before taking some sort of decisive action or other.  Whether it's via intense international pressure finally having some sort of effect, Kim Jong-il finally croaking, or the least desirable option of military action, preventing a state like that from being able to severely threaten its neighbors is imperative.

[tinfoil]

It causes me no small amount of concern that a country run by a nutlog posses an arsenal of weapons that could turn my city into a radioactive campfire faster than I could microwave a burrito. Just my $0.02.

[redsniper]

It causes me no small amount of concern that a country run by a nutlog posses an arsenal of weapons that could turn my city into a radioactive campfire faster than I could microwave a burrito. Just my $0.02.

But it can't turn your city into a because there's no delivery system worth a wank.

[NGTM-1R]

But it can't turn your city into a because there's no delivery system worth a wank.

We think that. However, it's somewhat academic. North Korea also has huge chemical and biological arsenals.

Seoul is gone. It's within range of free-flight rockets like the FROG series and even if you can intercept them, you'll never get them all. The city is coated in a cloud of various persistant gas weapons and will not be inhabitable againd for decades. Pusan is gone.  Same reason. Japan's Arleigh Burke IIAs and Patriot batteries probably intercept the inbound Nodong and Taepodong warheads. Anything beyond 100 miles from the border with the North is reasonably safe, as then it becomes a ballistic interception issue and South Korea has invested heavily in TBM-intercepting SAMs, as has the US which maintains substantial forces there. Guam is probably safe too, which is about as far as they can realistically reach at this time.

You'll notice a lot of probably's in those sentences. This is intentional. Intercepting a ballistic inbound is still more of an art than a science, and while the SM2 and current models of the Patriot are very capable in that regard, North Korea still has a lot of missiles and a single focused launch is likely to overwhelm the defenses of any one target.

[Knight Templar]

But it can't turn your city into a because there's no delivery system worth a wank.

We think that. However, it's somewhat academic. North Korea also has huge chemical and biological arsenals.

Seoul is gone. It's within range of free-flight rockets like the FROG series and even if you can intercept them, you'll never get them all. The city is coated in a cloud of various persistant gas weapons and will not be inhabitable againd for decades. Pusan is gone.  Same reason. Japan's Arleigh Burke IIAs and Patriot batteries probably intercept the inbound Nodong and Taepodong warheads. Anything beyond 100 miles from the border with the North is reasonably safe, as then it becomes a ballistic interception issue and South Korea has invested heavily in TBM-intercepting SAMs, as has the US which maintains substantial forces there. Guam is probably safe too, which is about as far as they can realistically reach at this time.

You'll notice a lot of probably's in those sentences. This is intentional. Intercepting a ballistic inbound is still more of an art than a science, and while the SM2 and current models of the Patriot are very capable in that regard, North Korea still has a lot of missiles and a single focused launch is likely to overwhelm the defenses of any one target.

It causes me no small amount of concern that a country run by a nutlog posses an arsenal of weapons that could turn my city into a radioactive campfire faster than I could microwave a burrito. Just my $0.02.

OMG THEIR LEADER IS NUTS HE HAS NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND IS GOING TO FIRE THEM AT EVERYONE AS SOON AS HE CAN THATS WHY WE HAVE TO  BOMB BOMB BOMB IRAN, BOMB BOMB BOMB IRA --

 oh wait...

[Mars]

And all of the countries of the world continue to sit there with their fingers on the buttons, eying each other.

[Mefustae]

And all of the countries of the world continue to sit there with their fingers on the buttons, eying each other.

At least it's better than 20 years ago, when everyone was on fire.

[redsniper]

But it can't turn your city into a because there's no delivery system worth a wank.

We think that. However, it's somewhat academic. North Korea also has huge chemical and biological arsenals.

Seoul is gone. It's within range of free-flight rockets like the FROG series and even if you can intercept them, you'll never get them all. The city is coated in a cloud of various persistant gas weapons and will not be inhabitable againd for decades. Pusan is gone.  Same reason. Japan's Arleigh Burke IIAs and Patriot batteries probably intercept the inbound Nodong and Taepodong warheads. Anything beyond 100 miles from the border with the North is reasonably safe, as then it becomes a ballistic interception issue and South Korea has invested heavily in TBM-intercepting SAMs, as has the US which maintains substantial forces there. Guam is probably safe too, which is about as far as they can realistically reach at this time.

You'll notice a lot of probably's in those sentences. This is intentional. Intercepting a ballistic inbound is still more of an art than a science, and while the SM2 and current models of the Patriot are very capable in that regard, North Korea still has a lot of missiles and a single focused launch is likely to overwhelm the defenses of any one target.

So you're saying that Canada is within 100 miles of the North Korean border?

When I said 'your' back there, I meant the specific 'your' not the indefinite.

[tinfoil]

You're not even arguing with me anymore.

And what I meant was that if one could get a nuclear bomb to my city, it would have little trouble turning it into a slag heap.

Anyway, let's say they have a reliable delivery method that can reach anywhere they like, and they pull a pre-emptive strike on the US and South Korea. Everyone invades, Kim Jong-Il panics and goes (even more) nuts. I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but what if? It's certainly not something to be taken lightly. People have proven time and time again that humans are not to be trusted.

[Dark RevenantX]

If that happens, I doubt something as small as a handful of nukes would hit, considering we have (admittedly undazzling) countermeasures...

[Slasher]

You're not even arguing with me anymore.

And what I meant was that if one could get a nuclear bomb to my city, it would have little trouble turning it into a slag heap.

Anyway, let's say they have a reliable delivery method that can reach anywhere they like, and they pull a pre-emptive strike on the US and South Korea. Everyone invades, Kim Jong-Il panics and goes (even more) nuts. I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but what if? It's certainly not something to be taken lightly. People have proven time and time again that humans are not to be trusted.

Kim Il-Jong is a nutcase but that doesn't mean he and his generals have thrown short-term pragmatism to the wind.  Moreover, preemptive strikes are often launched with the goal of destroying the target's ability to retaliate before it can do so.  I know you're just playing Devil's Advocate here, but the DPRK is so far away from being able to neutralize the United States' strategic arsenal it's (not) funny. 

That said, I'd certainly be more comfortable if the North Koreans didn't have the bomb.  Nonetheless, far out scenarios of nuclear war on the Korean peninsula do not properly contextualize the issue.

[Nuke]

i think this problem can be solved with a good ol fashion assassination...
...with nuclear bullets of course

[NGTM-1R]

So you're saying that Canada is within 100 miles of the North Korean border?

When I said 'your' back there, I meant the specific 'your' not the indefinite.

I don't know where you all live. (And don't much care, usually.)

In any case, no, it's not.

This post is for the education of the masses who think violence is a reasonable option. I grant that's probably beyond KT's ability to discern, but I would hope the general idea is not lost on him (pretty sure it's not), or anyone else, anyways.

[Flaser]

Am I the only one who didn't dismiss the idea of delivering a nuke the slow way?

In trucks, ships, next to a whole bunch of banana or crude vegetable oil under another massive pile of general products. "Smuggled" into a country. Then you rent a building do some renovation, and cement the nuke into the foundations...

...then on a really (nuclear) rainy day, it only takes a (cell-)phone call to bomb any given capital. It's not the damage per-se (it's only gona take out a couple of blocks and set a ragin firestorm in the next couple of blocks)...
...it's the fear that it could be in any block of any city.

[castor]

Am I the only one who didn't dismiss the idea of delivering a nuke the slow way?

In trucks, ships, next to a whole bunch of banana or crude vegetable oil under another massive pile of general products. "Smuggled" into a country. Then you rent a building do some renovation, and cement the nuke into the foundations...

Dunno, but I guess you'd need to bring the core in pretty much ready-to-go condition? Might be tough to get it to go critical otherwise.

[Flaser]

You do realize that a (edit) by design small (/edit) nuclear weapon is only a couple of hundred kilograms heavy even in its crude form?
Hardly an "extravagant" weight compared to all the stuff we do haul around.

For the record the minimum weight of an implosion tech plutonium warhead's payload is a mere 10 kg. That is 10 kg of plutonium. You still need explosive to compress it, several parts to shape the explosion's shock wave so on, but still all in all a suitcase bomb isn't entirely far fetched. Granted it will be a "small bomb" (~1 kt range).

A proper bomb still won't be gigantic and definitely within the capabilities of a simply truck to transport.

[castor]

Sure. I thought you were speculating about someone smuggling in the payload material in smaller doses, to reduce the effect of being caught.