[Mobius]

What the title says.

I wonder if politicians will ever realize it... it will take several decades, if not centuries, to have a grown and mature EU. We have authorities, we have a bunch of people coming out with ideas, laws and so on... but, in reality, we don't have that much. The supposed power of the citizens is, in reality, in the hands of a very limited group of bureaucrats. Someone says, "Try to feel like a true European citizen" but heh, it's a damn hard thing to do.

There are too many differences and political conflicts, too many. I can't think of decisions made to help the EU as a whole, but rather decisions that damage some countries to help other countries in a pathetically legitimate way. I don't know how the situation is in the rest of Europe, but I can ensure you that here the whole idea of "European Union" is damn abstract. I tried to consider it a concrete deal a while ago, but soon afterwards I felt like I was dreaming and continued to think about my country's business, only. That feeling wasn't unexpected, anyway.

What are your thoughts? Do you also consider yourself a true European citizen? If so, why? What are your expectations? For the non-Europeans, what do you think about the EU?

[iamzack]

I like the EU cause it means Germans call their money "oi-roes." ("eu" is pronounced "oi")

[Mobius]

Yeah, and in Spanish "Eu" means "I". What does it add to the discussion?

("Eu" is also used in particular variants of the dialect of my region. In my town, we use the variant "iu")

[IceFire]

From outside of Europe....I think the whole idea of the EU is a natural progression.  European countries have a lot to share with each other and there is a very rich history packed together in a relatively small area geographically.  Given todays realities it only makes sense to have such an organization.

If you think about it Canada and the United States, both which cover a very large area and are broken into provinces and states aren't completely different.  There ARE differences to this of course ...a much longer history for sure but it is possible for some sort of arrangement to work out where the member states making up the EU can operate both as a group and as separate identities.  So far I see the EU as a positive force on the whole.  It'll be interesting to see how this goes in the long run....but ask a person on the ground during 1940 to 1945 if a economically and in some ways politically united Europe was possible some 60ish years later and I think they would have certified you for the looney bin.

[Mobius]

The supposed ideals are valid - they're the direct consequence of the outcome of WW2... but... it's the way the whole EU is being managed that bugs people like me. I see ideals, I see authorities willing to create a strong entity... but I don't really feel like those authorities are working on making us feel citizens of the EU.

[Goober5000]

Except that Europe isn't made up of multiple states that have a common culture.  Each member country has their own culture and history, of which it is fiercely proud of, stretching back hundreds of years.  There's a lot of deep-rooted identity in each one.

[Mikes]

While the political dimension may not be all that well developped yet, the economic realities of the "EU" are actually already quite huge.

[Turambar]

Except that Europe isn't made up of multiple states that have a common culture.  Each member country has their own culture and history, of which it is fiercely proud of, stretching back hundreds of years.  There's a lot of deep-rooted identity in each one.

I wish I had culture :-(

[colecampbell666]

You're American, too bad.

I'm proud to be European.

[iamzack]

I'm southern. I have culture. :3

[Knight Templar]

I'm American. I have plenty of culture. 233 years worth of it.

Honestly, the EU strikes me as the natural conclusion to a Pax Europa idea, which I hardly see as a bad thing. I don't see it ever culminating in one singular-voiced political entity, at least not in the near future. But in terms of pluralistic peace, I think the idea of open-free flowing trade and transport is a key ingredient to lasting contiguous regional peace.

I'm not European. My knowledge of the EU extends to what I read in the news, a few skimmings, and general (and niche-specific) European history up to WWII. But from what I understand, I don't think the purpose of the EU is to force  people to shed their personal heritage or allegiance to their own states, but rather encourage individual states to work toward peace and equality through trade and like-legislation. I could be entirely wrong.

[SpardaSon21]

I'm an American, and I don't see the EU becoming very concrete.  The way I see it, Europe is highly nationalistic, just look at what happens at soccer games.  Europe is powerful, but it doesn't feel like one concrete entity in the way the U.S. does, at least to me.  Europe is extremely diverse, and I just don't see the various nations shedding their national and ethnic identity and culture and becoming European.  Part of the problem is Europe's system of government.  The European Union seems to me to be an attempt to form essentially a United States of Europe, which requires a strong belief in Federalism as a working political system, and as far as I know Europe's current political climate is very top-down with little delegation of power to states/provinces.

[Kosh]

Except that Europe isn't made up of multiple states that have a common culture.  Each member country has their own culture and history, of which it is fiercely proud of, stretching back hundreds of years.  There's a lot of deep-rooted identity in each one.

To be fair the same could be said about the northern and southern states, even going so far as to fight a war over it. Even today there is still a big gap between them.

I think the EU has potential, but really in the coming decades closer integration in the EU will become a necessity. With India and China both rising, that's about 1/3 of the entire world's population just between those two countries, the smaller states will get increasingly crowded out. In the end people will wake up and see this, and they will unify for the same reason the old german states unified with prussia: either unify or face insignificance.

[General Battuta]

As some moderately okay textbook pointed out, it used to be 'the United States are', not 'the United States is'.

[DeepSpace9er]

well its different today when you have an all-powerful federal government that trumps individual state laws wholesale. For uniformity's sake, and the fact that travel today is so much quicker and easier for the average citizen, it would be silly and archaic to not have a federal authority that has this ability. Like, if it was all about 'states rights' a citizen going from connecticut to new jersey could have the law differences of going to another country. Which is exactly where the EU sits now.

[Rodo]

You should come to visit over here in south America and I assure you after your visit you'll see why the EU is actually the right path for the region.
Here, the opposite is taking place and this is getting nastier every day it passes by.
And don't worry about having lousy politicians and bureaucrats.. those are everywhere and they will never be gone, not even in the best nation you be free of them.

[iamzack]

You should come to visit over here in south America and I assure you after your visit you'll see why the EU is actually the right path for the region.
Here, the opposite is taking place and this is getting nastier every day it passes by.
And don't worry about having lousy politicians and bureaucrats.. those are everywhere and they will never be gone, not even in the best nation you be free of them.

Yeeeeahh sorry about that.  Our country had all of your good politicians assasinated :-(

[StarSlayer]

Actually it is pretty interesting, if you want to get a handle on the EU I would really recommend taking an economic route to learning about it.  Understanding the economics of post war Europe really makes a lot of the history and issues currently facing the EU pretty clear.  The double edged sword they face with admitting eastern countries for example.  On one edge is the issue that the high population and poorer economies of these countries would change the balance of power in the EU.  The other edge is that the moderate governments that are seeking entrance into the EU are depending on acceptance, if they are denied those governments could crumble, leaving god knows in their wake.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I'm under the perception that the EU is closer to world peace than anyone else on Earth.

[Kosh]

Have any of you guys checked the "readers recommend" section of the new have your say on the BBC? Appearently lots of anti-EU feelings in the UK if that is any measure to go by.