[Kosh]

Thoughts?

"Retired University of Tennessee Professor Dr. John Reece Roth has been sentenced to four years in prison after he allowed a Chinese graduate student to see sensitive information on Unmanned Air Vehicles (UAVs), also known as drones. In 2004, the company Roth helped found, Atmospheric Glow Technologies, won a US Air Force contract to develop a plasma actuator that could help reduce drag on the wings of drones, such as the ones the military uses. Under the contract, for which Roth was reportedly paid $6,000, he was prohibited from sharing sensitive data with foreign nationals. Despite warnings from his university's Export Control Officer, in 2006, Roth took a laptop containing sensitive plans with him on a lecture tour in China and also allowed graduate students Xin Dai of China and Sirous Nourgostar of Iran to work on the project. 'The illegal export of restricted military data represents a serious threat to national security,' says David Kris of the US Department of Justice. 'We know that foreign governments are actively seeking this information for their own military development. Today's sentence should serve as a warning to anyone who knowingly discloses restricted military data in violation of our laws.' During his trial, Roth testified that he was unaware that hiring the graduate students was a violation of his contract. 'This whole thing has not helped me, it has not helped the university,' said Roth. 'And it has probably not helped this country, either.'"

[redsniper]

Don't divulge military secrets.

[Uchuujinsan]

The Professor might be unlucky, but imho justified.
He agreed to keep the secrets after all.

[perihelion]

Um... when in doubt, ask?  Duh?

[Dark RevenantX]

The problem he faces is not the 4 years in prison - he will no longer be trusted to keep a secret (big or small - doesn't matter) for the rest of his life.

As I always say, "life sucks and then you die."

[karajorma]

It's his own fault really. He was warned he was doing something stupid. He did it anyway.

[redsniper]

See even if it was an honest mistake, there are just some mistakes we can't allow. If you run a red light, you get a ticket unless maybe it's an emergency or something. The point is, we can't have people driving through red lights for ANY reason, so it doesn't matter if you did it just to spite the law or honestly didn't see the light, we can't allow it.

[castor]

The problem he faces is not the 4 years in prison - he will no longer be trusted to keep a secret (big or small - doesn't matter) for the rest of his life.

He's 71.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

With luck, he'll live to 101. Still quite a while to go.

[Mikes]

So if he had allowed only American students to work on the project it would have been ok ?

If he had offered a seminar for American students only, they would propably have gotten him for racism LOL.


The scientific community and military interests usually don't go along well for several reasons...   but i see this pretty much as a direct consequence of allowing foreign students to study at american universities in the first place. I.e. it, or something like it, was bound to happen.... propably already happened dozens of times, just this guy happened to get caught. Banning foreign students from US universities however would rightfully cause a public outcry of epic proportions, so instead this guy has to take the fall. It's actually quite hypocritical in my eyes really. Like the government being frustrated about what they know will happen anyways.

Like freely placing a giant delicious cookie jar of still warm cookies under the noses of foreign powers and then punishing your own citizens if someone who wasn't "supposed to" actually ate a cookie.
Course there is no easy answer, but this isn't a solution (there isn't really one if you want to keep living in a "free" country ) ... this is the military/government venting frustration in my eyes lol.

This professor simply treated foreign students just like any other student. If foreign students are supposed to be "2nd class students with restricted access" then frankly ... someone from the government needs to inform the public about it and deal with the consequences lol. And if military secrets are supposed to be kept then the military needs to use its own labs and its own people. Period. No way around it. Intereferring with the scientific community and the work they do and how they do it certainly will only end in frustration for BOTH sides and either end up with professors being in jail or the scientific process being stymied by military interests.

As i said... in my eyes, assuming the actual facts match somewhat up as presented: Hypocrisy as elaborate as it gets. Are universities an extension of the military now ? Do students need security clearance before signing up for seminars ? No ? Well how can you arbitrarily put this guy in jail then, while all kinds of secrets are leaking out of all kinds of fields (including business processes, manufacturing processes, chemistry and material knowledge et cetera.) to foreign countries on a daily basis ? That is pretty much a fact. It's called an international scientific community and the US pretty much benefits from it as much as everyone else. Did someone forget the tell the military? Seriously... if you want to keep a secret... then for christs sake use secure facilities with your own staff and don't blame professors for doing their job lol.

[karajorma]

Or he could have simply said "I have foreign students, this isn't worth the hassle for a $6,000 job"

[Mikes]

Or he could have simply said "I have foreign students, this isn't worth the hassle for a $6,000 job"

The question i wanna pose here is...  why does the military contract jobs out to public companies run by university professors if they want to keep a secret ?
It just seems to me as if this professor is at least partly punished for the militaries own stupidity and ignorance.

As said before... if you have cookies and don't want them to get eaten, do you leave them laying around unattended at a birthday party?
And forbidding party guests to eat cookies would be about as stupid as trying to forbid the scientific community the sharing of information.

They got the wrong man for the wrong job and now are kinda pissed off of how stupid they were and he gotta pay for it.
And the real irony is, that this guy is now gonna be sitting in jail instead of continuing his research. And over what? Going to jail for a job that was worth 6000$ ?
Must be a real huge military secret if it cost a whole 6000$ to develop! ROTFLAMO... Seriously... how braindead is the military today ?

That professor was doing nothing else than his job. If military contracts start inhibiting the work of US professors, then that would appear to be a much more severe cause of concern in my eyes, especially if petty contracts over a mere 6000$ end up sending a professor to jail and pretty much ruin his career. It really doesn't matter if the professor is guilty of anything at this point. What matters is that "official policy", which begins with contracting out sensitive jobs and ends with sending people to jail over a 6000$ job is not just outright idiotic, but more to the point: harmful and destructive to the American scientific community. Wether the professor should not have accepted the job or whether this specific professor should not have been offered the job is really beside the point, it's the underlaying policy that is flawed to the core.

Seriously... great job ... make this a role model and keep at it and in just a couple of years the American scientific community will be the laughing stock of the world. Congratulations.

[Blue Lion]

I would assume this would come with some kind of security clearance. I wouldn't be shocked if a ton of civilians have info on military projects but actually adhere to that secrecy.

[karajorma]

I wouldn't be surprised at all.

The question i wanna pose here is...  why does the military contract jobs out to public companies run by university professors if they want to keep a secret ?

Cause they were stupid enough to believe that once the university professor had promised not to give access to foreign nationals that he would stick to that promise?

If this were a commercial project and he'd broken an NDA would you be so quick to say that he should suffer the consequences of his actions?

Did you not notice that he was explicitly told by his university not to do at least one of the things he got himself in trouble for?

[Flipside]

If they'd been foreign nationals who were in the US as students, then I'd be a little bit more in support of the professor, but in this case, he took the details to China.

In many ways, if you look back to the reaction to this kind of stuff during the Cold War, this professor actually got off extremely lightly.

[Inquisitor]

Civilians manage to keep secrets all the time.

[Dilmah G]

The Professor might be unlucky, but imho justified.
He agreed to keep the secrets after all.

Justified? How?

[MP-Ryan]

If they'd been foreign nationals who were in the US as students, then I'd be a little bit more in support of the professor

I wouldn't.  His access to the information was granted with specific legal limitations, the consequences of which would have been clearly outlined in the security agreement he signed.  He violated that agreement, and is now receiving the consequences.  This isn't rocket science.

Security clearances are not to be taken lightly.

[Blue Lion]

  This isn't rocket science.

This would have been hilarious if it had actually been rocket science

[NGTM-1R]

This would have been hilarious if it had actually been rocket science

That's happened too.