[Aardwolf]

Some of you may remember the GTCv Moscow, a collaborative modeling experiment a while ago.

Well, I've had an idea for a while now to make a different kind of support ship, which would be larger and capable of servicing multiple fighters simultaneously. Obviously that second part might require a significant bit of coding (or it might be doable with scripting). Nonetheless, failing that, I imagine it would still make for a nice addition to any campaign with a "rag-tag fleet".

Problem is, I've already got more FS-related things going on than I need, plus I've just finished my first week of the summer quarter (I'm at a 3-year college which uses a quarterly system).

So yeah, I'm lazy and am going to make you guys do it.

Aardwolf is just being facetious here, don't take that bit seriously.

Really though, I don't think I can afford to start yet another project and then be forced to let it die, or stupidly spend more time on it only to see my grades suffer in result.

The idea of "Collaborative Modelling" seemed to work fairly well... a heck of a lot better than I expected as it was being worked on, anyway. I don't know too much about the behind-the-scenes organization that might have went on with it, but I was hoping I'd be able to pique the interest of enough people to get things rolling. I of course have an interest in this as well, and will probably want to have a part in it when I've got free time.

The concept I'm envisioning (as far as the role it would perform) calls for something a little bigger than the size of the GTFr Poseidon.

So, what do people think? I have some ideas for what it might look like, and I could try to get things started if there's an interest, but I need to know whether there is before I waste my time on something stupid.

If you're interested in my vision of it, I was picturing some sort of thick (but not too thick) 'spine' from the front (a thicker part where the bridge would be), arching up over the area where the fighters would dock, and connecting to the engine assembly. Some part of the hull would extend to the sides of the area where the fighter servicing takes play, either from the front, the back, or maybe the spine, providing some cover for fighters in the service area, but not enough to make it a safe haven. One idea I'm thinking about is some sort of armored (read: not too thin) pylons supporting the 'repair equipment' parts of the model (that is, the multiple places on the ship where fighters would dock (probably by getting close enough and then activating some sort of autopilot) and have their repairs done), and could possibly have turrets on the outward-facing side of each such pylon. I reckon that aesthetically, this design would look best with 4 such pylons/turret-mounts/repair-centers/convenient-things-that-get-in-the-way-of-enemy-shots-when-you-want-to-rearm.

[Galemp]

Would it be an active support ship? As in, rearming multiple ships, simultaneously, in combat? Because that would be nigh impossible to coordinate.

[Getter Robo G]

  Don't take this personally, but support ships go TO the target they are servicing.

Yes it was pointed out already, but in order to to service multiple ships the code would need to make all craft needing support to go TO teh craft instead of the other way around.

"Heading to support for rearming!"

That would probably be a bit of code there. Not sure if people would even want that? maybe if there was a BASE that could double as a support ship? Makes some sense...

Another way you could do it is liek a transporter. When on station and IF in range, teh support ship coudl "beam" supplies aboard all ships needing it almost simultaneously. Or as fast as the Computer can register teh rtesquests and finish the rearming sequences (speeded up to max liek .01 each?)

[Aardwolf]

Yeah, I considered a lot of those factors.

It would definitely not be used in quite the same way as the traditional FreeSpace support ships. Because the docking would be a little more complicated, pilots in need of support could definitely not simply sit still and have the support ship come to them, line up the docking, etc.. My idea to handle this would basically come down to the pilots heading to the support ship, possibly targeting a subsystem to select which docking port to go to, and then activating some sort of autopilot system. As with normal calls for support, however, it would need to be possible to abort.

Because the support ship is somewhat less mobile than the traditional kind, in general I couldn't see it flying to the pilot first, except if maybe you were the only pilot in range, or the only one in need of support at the moment. It would, however, still have engines, and thus could be a reasonable option in escort missions where the entire operation needs to continue moving forward anyway.

There is one problem I hadn't taken into consideration previously, which is the possibility of fighters being disabled. I have however come up with a possible solution, which is to give the super-support-ship one docking point that would function in the more traditional manner, which would be reserved specifically for that purpose. Another alternative would be attaching one or two drones to the support ship, which would be specifically tasked with engine repair, or simply having a separate support ship capable of system repair but not rearmament.

Obviously, though, this idea isn't as simple as swapping out the Hygeia for something else. It would almost certainly require either some cleverness as far as FREDing, some lua scripting, or the addition of some new features. Really, it's just an 'interesting idea' that I wouldn't mind seeing in FS2, or at least seeing how the effort to get it into FS2 goes. It would make combat logistics more important, and would make the support ship a priority for defense and at the same time capable of fending for itself. It could also make possible the idea of a battle of attrition: even with a larger support ship so as not to have to deal with the [previously bogus] claim that support ships can run out of ammo, losing a support ship could be made into a big deal, and losing a bunch in one battle (if a mission gave you more than one) would easily mean losing the battle as a whole.

Edit: retitled the thread, apparently I had the original project's name wrong...

[Galemp]

And, eh, what would be the point of all this?

[Moonred]

Just make a cargo with docking system >_<

[Aardwolf]

And, eh, what would be the point of all this?

Mainly the point is that it's an interesting feature, and something new 'big' or 'total' conversions would be able to make use of. As far as what faction would use it, however, it doesn't seem to mesh well with the GTA or GTVA's modus operandi, because they already have their own system.

I could imagine it might work for prequel campaigns, campaigns set sufficiently far in the future, return-to-Sol campaigns, campaigns that add additional alien races, campaigns that have rebelling Terran of Vasudan factions... the features themselves possibly in campaigns that want to give the Shivans a support ship, also total-conversion campaigns which are in invented universes, TC's in existing but ill-established universes, any TC's in universes that already have something similar so not being able to do it would be bad if such TCs would or do exist...

So yeah...

As for

Just make a cargo with docking system >_<

I have no idea what you're on about.

[0rph3u5]

So you are going for the HW Support Frigate/Corvette approach? - Large Support ship fighters come back to for refueling and repair?
Or the B5 Raider Carrier approach? Large mothership with squads of fighters attached on the hull, ready to be launched once mothership has been deployed?

Both approaches do need a lot of work as I recall....

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I could imagine it might work for prequel campaigns, [...] campaigns that have rebelling Terran [...] factions..

Just make a cargo with docking system

for such a chase I suggest we first finsih some of Axem's "crappy work" like the TAC TDM found on the bottom of this site or the TRI TDP found here (both modeled by Axem but never converted and textured)

[Aardwolf]

Ohhhh... that.

As for Orpheus' guesses/examples as to what I mean, I imagine it'd be fairly similar, but I haven't seen either in a while so my memory is a bit fuzzy. It's sort of like returning to a carrier and getting repairs/rearm/etc., but it's a carrier that's been stripped down of the ability to carry more than maybe 4 fighters, is only about as big as the GTFr Poseidon, and on which pilots are strongly cautioned to stay inside their fighter if they wish to live. And since there's no 'internal' docking, it is in that respect similar to the B5 raider carrier.

Still nobody getting it (and interested in giving a try)?

[SypheDMar]

I think that we should finish the Moscow before attempting to do another Cumulative Modeling Project. After all, we'd probably leave this in the same step, anyway. It'd also be less useful because, unlike the Moscow, the support ship wouldn't function properly by default.

[Bob-san]

Here's a concept; why not have a large wide support ship that docks around the fighter? More or less, dock to the fighter while being heavier and covering more space. A thought would be to add a tough top-mounted shield. I can model a basic concept (just not at this very moment) in AutoCAD but good luck getting that to convert!

[TrashMan]

Anyone recall the Support/Rescue ships in Starlancer? That's how I think a support ships should be like.

[Angelus]

This is a "offspring" of a model i made a while back for my mod.
Never found the time to finished it, but it was supposed to be able to repair and re-arm the fighters.
Added the Poseidon cargo-thingys on the ventral hull, to resemble more the FS designs.
I had some trouble with the player docking on the other model, so i dropped the idea 'till the Diaspora team releases R1 ( hopefully with rearming after the combat landing...).

One thing i never tried was to flag it as support ship, with added dockpoints for the AI, and make it really slow.
Something i'll try, once i finish some of the other stuff i'm working on.

[Aardwolf]

I think that we should finish the Moscow before attempting to do another Cumulative Modeling Project. After all, we'd probably leave this in the same step, anyway. It'd also be less useful because, unlike the Moscow, the support ship wouldn't function properly by default.

A noble thought. For whatever reason, though, it seems like people are finally starting to get the idea I've been trying to communicate.

And to think, I was about to retitle the thread

[Colonol Dekker]

Homeworke style mini carrier or a mobile service platfrom!

[Aardwolf]

Alright, I've made a preliminary model of the thing, as I had envisioned it. As I was making this, I compared it to the sizes of a Herc I and a Poseidon, and I realized to have 4 service stations, I'd have to scale it up. I'm still not confident that it's up-scaled enough as it is, but it's not approaching cruiser-size yet, which is good. Pics as soon as I make and upload them.

Meanwhile, attaching a .3ds version of it.

Edit: Here are some shots of it. It's obviously being kept low-poly because that was sort of the point of the Cumulative bit.






[attachment deleted by MSC

[Colonol Dekker]

Well i just got in... And heres some additions/

First off. Improved the nose, secons. Gave it engines Third. Random bits on the nose.

No screens yet..

[attachment deleted by MSC

[Aardwolf]

Eh... I don't really get what you were going for there. The 'engines' you added don't work for me, the chin is ok maybe but it was unexpected, and the big thing on the front looks too much like a gun considering it's not primarily a combat ship.

As for the engines, there wasn't much of an indication of this, but I was trying to imitate the engines of the Poseidon somewhat. So the polygons in the back would have ultimately had multiple engine cylinders modeled into 'em or something.

[Aardwolf]

Alright, Dekker made another stab at it, but didn't feel like uploading it as a whole.

This is the engine block from it, which I quite like. It would however require a proper 'transition' to the neck/spine section.

One thing Dekker says he didn't initially get about my concept was that the fighters would dock on the insides of the pylons (and as such, the pylons would provide a bit of protection from enemy fire). He had made the neck dip deeper into the area the fighters would need to go through to reach the docking surfaces, which would mean either having to scale the whole thing up, or limiting it to smaller fighters.

Edit: I'm now uploading another version, this is basically the front welded onto Dekker's engine block.

[attachment deleted by MSC

[Black Wolf]

I've not looked at the models, granted, but one of the things I was trying to do with the Moscow was keep it hands-off as much as possible. Letting it grow organically as people added to bits they liked and subtracted bits they didn't, much like the way a wiki article grows - as a cumulative effort. You might find people less willing to help if you try to maintain too much creative control.

Your thread, your project of course. Just... some advice.