[NGTM-1R]

So... did you actually watch the series? If so, in which form? Who are these fans? Are they people with much experience in reviewing metaphysical interpretations of events and plot devices in anime?

Yes. Subbed and dubbed. The ones who do entries for TVTropes, though I did actually speak to one via MSN.

Oh come on. Even by your own standards he didn't find god. Also, I can't read Japanese and neither can you, so admittedly I got it from secondary sources.

The quality of dubs is, more often than not, outright terrible. Not only do you have to deal with censorship and cuts (note: that site appears to be under maintenance, but there's an excellent collection of translation differences between the versions of Chrono Trigger there that you can find when it's working again), but also downright misinterpretations. Granted, there are bad subs out there. But I've yet to see one that's worse than a standard 4Kids (or equivalent) dub.

And this wasn't dubbed by 4kids, therefore your points are invalid. Also, we're not talking about Chrono Trigger, so your points are still invalid. And generalization is also invalid when discussing a single instance.

I've watched a few episodes of the aired dub (after viewing the sub), and there's obvious changes in dialogue and nomenclature that serve no purpose.

Yes, but what does that have to do with damaging the story, if anything? Nothing, you say? That's what I thought. There's a lot of culture nuance that a good dubbing job translates or modifies which would otherwise be lost. Automatically assuming changes are mistakes is stupid.

By the by, how does finding an original format superior make one exemplify "head-up-ass-ness"?

See my comments about managing to prove nothing about the dub in question.

[Stormkeeper]

Haha, what the Mittani did makes the Guiding Hand Social Club (the assassins you refer to) look like a bunch of toddlers playing cops and robbers in a sandbox.

Oh? Pray tell. I'm always interested to know how magnificent magnificent bastards can be without being Xanatos.

[Bobboau]

talking one dissatisfied director of a rival superpower into flipping a switch that destroyed said rival superpower in an instant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM8HMy2uO-Y

watch the big blue and yellow blobs pay particular attention around the 0:55 mark.

[TrashMan]

• Really, really good cell-shaded animation - Check

Meh..I hate that drawing style. The nose is featurless and blends with the face like it's not there, the chin is a spike and hte eyes are a continent apart.

[General Battuta]

talking one dissatisfied director of a rival superpower into flipping a switch that destroyed said rival superpower in an instant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM8HMy2uO-Y

watch the big blue and yellow blobs pay particular attention around the 0:55 mark.

That.

He convinced a dissatisfied member of BoB to dissolve the entire alliance. Goonswarm then registered BoB as a member of itself.

The end for EVE's biggest superpower, and a multi-year war resolved by a single defector.

[Mongoose]

The quality of dubs is, more often than not, outright terrible. Not only do you have to deal with censorship and cuts (note: that site appears to be under maintenance, but there's an excellent collection of translation differences between the versions of Chrono Trigger there that you can find when it's working again), but also downright misinterpretations. Granted, there are bad subs out there. But I've yet to see one that's worse than a standard 4Kids (or equivalent) dub.

No, no, no, no.  Seriously, people, this isn't 1995 anymore.  Even an average-level dub by one of the studios left doing them (as sales continue to increase because of kiddies leeching fansubs, more and more series are seeing sub-only releases, which is nothing but bad from where I'm sitting) is light-years ahead of the average effort of last decade, and I could point to any number of instances where the English audio track easily matches, if not outright betters, the Japanese original.  And while certain anime series may receive censorship and time cuts to air on TV, there are very few instances where they aren't presented in completely-uncut form on the DVD release.  Sorry to jump on you like this, but it really cheeses me off when people continue to use unfounded anti-dub arguments that haven't been valid for at least several years.

(...and how did we get onto EvE here? )

[BloodEagle]

So... did you actually watch the series? If so, in which form? Who are these fans? Are they people with much experience in reviewing metaphysical interpretations of events and plot devices in anime?

Yes. Subbed and dubbed. The ones who do entries for TVTropes, though I did actually speak to one via MSN.

I was under the impression that anyone could edit those pages. And how did you go about confirming their citizenship?

Spoiler:

Oh come on. Even by your own standards he didn't find god. Also, I can't read Japanese and neither can you, so admittedly I got it from secondary sources.

By my standards? No. By the standards of religion? Yes.

And you're correct in your assumption that I can't read any form of Japanese writing. Although I'm not sure where you got that from.

The quality of dubs is, more often than not, outright terrible. Not only do you have to deal with censorship and cuts (note: that site appears to be under maintenance, but there's an excellent collection of translation differences between the versions of Chrono Trigger there that you can find when it's working again), but also downright misinterpretations. Granted, there are bad subs out there. But I've yet to see one that's worse than a standard 4Kids (or equivalent) dub.

And this wasn't dubbed by 4kids, therefore your points are invalid. Also, we're not talking about Chrono Trigger, so your points are still invalid. And generalization is also invalid when discussing a single instance.

My points are invalid because you say they are? Good to know. I was hoping for something more than 'I can't hear you! La-la-la,' though.  

Notice that I stated "(or equivalent)," in my prior post.  I wasn't stating that 4Kids dubbed Code Geass, I was using it as a benchmark for bad translations. And, whilst Chrono Trigger was a text-to-text translation, I was using it as an example of how badly a bad translation can be done.

Also, please elaborate on "And generalization is also invalid when discussing a single instance." It sounds like an interesting frame of thought.

I've watched a few episodes of the aired dub (after viewing the sub), and there's obvious changes in dialogue and nomenclature that serve no purpose.

Yes, but what does that have to do with damaging the story, if anything? Nothing, you say? That's what I thought. There's a lot of culture nuance that a good dubbing job translates or modifies which would otherwise be lost. Automatically assuming changes are mistakes is stupid.

First, let me congratulate you on literally putting words into my mouth. There are a few physicists and politicians who would like to have words with you.  

Second, there are some things that won't fly past translations. Things such as sayings that have no direct meaning, or cultural references. However, the things that I'm speaking about have absolutely nothing to do with any sayings or references whatsoever. And changing something without reason sets a dangerous precedent. Notice how I said that I "watched a few episodes" of the aired dub, rather than the series as a whole. As such, I couldn't compare the major plot differences, if there were any.

By the by, how does finding an original format superior make one exemplify "head-up-ass-ness"?

See my comments about managing to prove nothing about the dub in question.

"Where's the beef?"

--

One last thing.

Subs nothing. I got it direct from Japanese fans explaining the series.

Also, that's not god, according to the Word of God.

"I'd also like a link to the dev's comment about that."

--

:::Preemptive edit:::

The quality of dubs is, more often than not, outright terrible. Not only do you have to deal with censorship and cuts (note: that site appears to be under maintenance, but there's an excellent collection of translation differences between the versions of Chrono Trigger there that you can find when it's working again), but also downright misinterpretations. Granted, there are bad subs out there. But I've yet to see one that's worse than a standard 4Kids (or equivalent) dub.

No, no, no, no.  Seriously, people, this isn't 1995 anymore.  Even an average-level dub by one of the studios left doing them (as sales continue to increase because of kiddies leeching fansubs, more and more series are seeing sub-only releases, which is nothing but bad from where I'm sitting) is light-years ahead of the average effort of last decade, and I could point to any number of instances where the English audio track easily matches, if not outright betters, the Japanese original.  And while certain anime series may receive censorship and time cuts to air on TV, there are very few instances where they aren't presented in completely-uncut form on the DVD release.  Sorry to jump on you like this, but it really cheeses me off when people continue to use unfounded anti-dub arguments that haven't been valid for at least several years.

One word: Shinigami. 

(...and how did we get onto EvE here? )

I'm rather curious about that, myself. 

[Mongoose]

One word: Shinigami. 

You're referring to Bleach, I take it?  Kubo Tite, the author of the original manga, specifically stated that "soul reaper" should be the official English translation of the term, since it carries the proper connotations for English speakers.  So basically, all of the people who whined about the use of that phrase were essentially whining to the person who created what they were whining about in the first place.  Isn't knowledge fun?

[NGTM-1R]

I was under the impression that anyone could edit those pages. And how did you go about confirming their citizenship?

IP.

By my standards? No. By the standards of religion? Yes.

Charles has very specific reasons for wanting god dead, reasons that, in the event, are not fulfilled, as the series ascribes your "god or equivalent" no particular powers, only to be some kind of gestalt that has no actual influence on anything that's admitted.

So basically he just blew up the portable drive or something.
 

And you're correct in your assumption that I can't read any form of Japanese writing. Although I'm not sure where you got that from.

I'm pretty sure you admitted it at some point, but even then, you have to admit it's usually a safe bet.

My points are invalid because you say they are? Good to know. I was hoping for something more than 'I can't hear you! La-la-la,' though.  

Notice that I stated "(or equivalent)," in my prior post.  I wasn't stating that 4Kids dubbed Code Geass, I was using it as a benchmark for bad translations. And, whilst Chrono Trigger was a text-to-text translation, I was using it as an example of how badly a bad translation can be done.

But you still failed to prove anything, as I pointed out (validly), because we were discussing the dub of this particular series, not of Chrono Trigger or any 4kids show. Those have no revelance to what we're talking about, because we aren't talking about them. Granted even on the larger scale you're wrong, as Mongoose so artfully pointed out, though.

Also, please elaborate on "And generalization is also invalid when discussing a single instance." It sounds like an interesting frame of thought.

We're discussing one object.

You wish to generalize about it's category.

The generalization about the category however, being generalization, is useless to the discussion of the object, which may or may not have anything to do with it.

"Where's the beef?"

Fine, I'll be blunter. You dismissed it out of hand because you assume automatically that dubs are bad, like you're still living in the age of Mackres or something. It's 2009. The days of the intolerable dub, outside the offices of 4kids, are long since over. Wake up.

[BloodEagle]

This is going back in forth with no headway in either direction. 

--

One word: Shinigami. 

You're referring to Bleach, I take it?  Kubo Tite, the author of the original manga, specifically stated that "soul reaper" should be the official English translation of the term, since it carries the proper connotations for English speakers.  So basically, all of the people who whined about the use of that phrase were essentially whining to the person who created what they were whining about in the first place.  Isn't knowledge fun?

I've never watched Bleach, I was referring to Death Note.

Shinigami translates to Death God.

[Mongoose]

Yes, it does literally, but "Death God" sounds profoundly stupid in everyday English.  They could have theoretically gone with "Grim Reaper," but that conveys a different image itself. I'm assuming that the original manga's author didn't prescribe a particular translation, so the translators make the call to stick with "shinigami," which worked fine for me.

[NGTM-1R]

Rule of Cool.

Besides, calling Ryuk a Death God doesn't work. He's not a Death God in the sense of any Death God a Western person would be familar with, like say Hades/Pluto. He doesn't have nearly enough power.

[Mongoose]

And I don't think Hades ever had a crack fix for apples.

[Stormkeeper]

EvE got on because some one brought up magnificent bastards.

[StarSlayer]

No ****...

http://shibuya246.com/2009/08/22/gundam-wedding/

[Stormkeeper]

Lucky Star had a joke that no matter what happened, as long as they tagged on the word 'Gundam', the Gundam otakus would feel honor-bound to watch it, no matter how crap-filled it was.

[TrashMan]

The power of extreeme fans...it's amazing isn't it?

[Mongoose]

"Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today in the sight of God and Gundam..."

[NGTM-1R]

"Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today in the sight of God and Gundam..."

Why do that when they have a God Gundam?

[TrashMan]

I wonder why people do that?...go to such extreems in fanboyism I mean.

Me, I'm not a fanboy of anything and I downright refuse to be. I force myself to be extra critical of anything I like so I never end up like those people.