[iamzack]

So let me understand, it's stereotyping of me to deduce that there are more Black felons, not because they are inherently criminals from being black, but that instead, segments of the population that are black have fewer fathers per capita that actually do the responsible thing and help raise they're child(ren).

There's absolutely no reason to insert black into the equation at all. It's irrelevant. What you're saying is that you deduce that felons tend to come out of populations which are less likely to have responsible father figures as a part of the household.

[Scotty]

That's what he was saying.  Thank you for making his point for him.  There is absolutely no reason for it.

[iamzack]

Well, it is stereotyping (even worse, it's assuming that lack of a father causes felony). It's just not a race-related stereotype. However, if you think race is relevant to the assumption, then that's actually just racist by definition.

[Scotty]

However, if you think race is relevant to the assumption, then that's actually just racist by definition.

Quick question: did you think that I thought race was relevant?  I meant exactly the opposite.  I think that race should never be a factor for anything.  Period.

(slightly) off-topic:  That's why I intensely dislike affirmative action.

[General Battuta]

Scotty, your ideas would be wonderful in a world where the playing field is in fact, level, and hopefully someday they'll have a place.

But for now, racism is a prevalent and subtle factor, and it must be fought.

[iamzack]

However, if you think race is relevant to the assumption, then that's actually just racist by definition.

Quick question: did you think that I thought race was relevant?  I meant exactly the opposite.  I think that race should never be a factor for anything.  Period.

(slightly) off-topic:  That's why I intensely dislike affirmative action.

I didn't think you thought that. I was just clarifying further why it's not part of the equation.

TBH, I don't really understand affirmative action very well, but it does leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

[Colonol Dekker]

This topic is on track for now but i'm keeping tabs on it. . . .
 
For the record my stance on the original topic is- regardless of circumstance, if the police want a chat, chat with them. Law is law and cooperation prevents escalation.

[iamzack]

This topic is on track for now but i'm keeping tabs on it. . . .
 
For the record my stance on the original topic is- regardless of circumstance, if the police want a chat, chat with them. Law is law and cooperation prevents escalation.

No thanks, I don't talk to strangers. Especially ones in authoritative positions.

[Colonol Dekker]

That's your own fault then.

[iamzack]

Fifth Amendment says different.

[Scotty]

Fifth Amendment is also an auto-suspicion.  Meaning that they will most likely pester you for longer.

[Colonol Dekker]

Don't read to much into it if the guy in the topic got arrested for non compliance.
And don't incite, my view is valid.

[Flipside]

I suppose the way I see it is, if the Police had stopped an actual burglar, regardless of skin colour, and then let him go because he claimed he owned the house without producing any evidence whatsoever that this was the case, how loud would this guy be shouting then?

[iamzack]

Fifth Amendment is also an auto-suspicion.

Not legally, it's not.

[Scotty]

When someone pleads the Fifth, it sets off some alarm bells (at least to me).  Legally, they may not be able to do anything about it, but you singled yourself out as knowing more than you let on (whether it's important or not).

[Colonol Dekker]

Legally you're meant to use the crossing lights. .

[Kosh]

Even if he were white (and I use particularly ugly phrase sparingly), being a convicted felon would put him behind everyone else in the field. 

It has less to do with the fact that he's black than it has to do with the fact that he was convicted for a major crime.

The point was he clearly sees his race as a major liability. But that still doesn't answer the challenge, why do we hardly (if ever) see any black engineers or doctors, and of those how many of them are even American instead of immigrated Africans?

[iamzack]

When someone pleads the Fifth, it sets off some alarm bells (at least to me).  Legally, they may not be able to do anything about it, but you singled yourself out as knowing more than you let on (whether it's important or not).

The point of the fifth amendment is that you don't have to say anything to the police without first consulting a lawyer. It's a protection against the police holding up a nonanswer as evidence that you did something wrong. Whether you are guilty or not, you have the right to not incriminate yourself. That's the job of the police.

Kinda like invoking the fourth amendment (no search without a warrant) doesn't mean you have drugs or dead bodies in your trunk. It just mean you don't want the cops digging around in your ****.

Don't even start "if you're innocent you should have no problem..." bull****. That's stupid.

But that still doesn't answer the challenge, why do we hardly (if ever) see any black engineers or doctors, and of those how many of them are even American instead of immigrated Africans?

Most likely the same reason only 0.14% (if I'm being very generous) of the registered members of this forum are female.

[Flipside]

Societal Stigmata within the group and Societal/Media pressure from outside, people get pushed onto rails, depending on their gender and their social, racial and financial backgrounds unfortunately

Edit: It's the case of the self-generating stereotype to be honest, people live up to what society expects of their stereotype, not the person themselves, and it's that circle which needs breaking.

[iamzack]

Edit: It's the case of the self-generating stereotype to be honest, people live up to what society expects of their stereotype, not the person themselves, and it's that circle which needs breaking.

I learned about that phenomenon in Psychology class!

Societal Stigmata within the group and Societal/Media pressure from outside, people get pushed onto rails, depending on their gender and their social, racial and financial backgrounds unfortunately

Who encourages black kids to be engineers? Probably the same people who encourage girls to be engineers. There aren't a lot of them. :[