Author Topic: American Health Care  (Read 34897 times)

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You mean me being a rich CEO of a powerful multinational corporation?  That would be pretty freaking awesome.  However, under no circumstances would I attempt to run a company into the ground.  It would be bad for me, since chances are most of my income would be from the stock that the company gave me in return for working for them.

And about the severance payments: they are written into the contracts that businesses have with their CEO's.  No matter a CEO's performance, he is entitled to his severance through his employment contract with the corporation.  If the companies do not pay, they could leave themselves open to a breach of contract lawsuit.  And don't blame the CEO's for this, contracts require the consent of both parties.
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17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

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[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Flipside

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True, but there's a massive force of 'normalisation' in play as well, basically, if one company is offering a fat severance package, and another company is offering a sensible one, then guess which job the CEO will go for, despite that fact that should tell the company all it needs to know about the person going for the job.

You are right in assuming that a lot of companies don't pay attention to details when hiring someone, but then, that's just another problem with corporations, I'm surprised shareholders don't say more, but then, very few shareholders are individuals, they are other corporations, and guess who defines their policies? Yup, the very people who benefit from high-level severance packages.

That's why I think there needs to be some kind of ceiling for that kind of thing, because, as recent events have revealed, leave the corporate sector to its own devices and greed becomes more important than service.

 

Offline High Max

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Quote
Remember that wanting too much is selfish.

Not true.  From the online Webster's:
1 : concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others
2 : arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others <a selfish act>

I know this is about health care, but I must say that is a black and white definition. I'm not talking about the pure absolute type of selfishness. You will find that often in life, things aren't so black and white. I'm talking about selfishness in general, not pure selfishness. Of course one could define selfishness as any instance of one thinking about themselves, but that would be black and white too and thinking that any instance of not being selfless is selfish. However, in that case, I would say "It is good to have a balance of selfishness or have a little selfishness, because if you didn't, you couldn't stay healthy or have self respect or stay alive for that matter".

Also, keep in mind that one can act selfish without actually being a selfish person and they might act selfish when it comes to certain things and not about other things. Also, they may act selfish to certain people and not as much to others.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 09:45:27 pm by High Max »
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Offline Turambar

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Yep, your company would need to lay off thousands, yet you get the equivalent of all of their salaries in a single golden handshake, which they give you even though you ran the company into the ground.

Yet you would sleep soundly the next night, as your empathy and altruism have been destroyed by some sinister force
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 10:14:25 pm by Turambar »
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline High Max

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Sounds very bad and......evil. I don't think I could live with myself if I was in the CEO's shoes.
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Offline Liberator

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Yep, your company would need to lay off thousands, yet you get the equivalent of all of their salaries in a single golden handshake, which they give you even though you ran the company into the ground.
Those so called golden handshakes and golden parachutes are guaranteed by contract and it is usually cheaper to keep to the contract than renege and have the contract holder, IE the CEO, from taking them to court over it.  Contract LAW isn't pretty, but it's better than the alternative.
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Offline Kosh

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Yep, your company would need to lay off thousands, yet you get the equivalent of all of their salaries in a single golden handshake, which they give you even though you ran the company into the ground.
Those so called golden handshakes and golden parachutes are guaranteed by contract and it is usually cheaper to keep to the contract than renege and have the contract holder, IE the CEO, from taking them to court over it.  Contract LAW isn't pretty, but it's better than the alternative.

Its outrageous because it means that no matter how good or bad the company is doing, The Man (tm) always gets more and more. Its a recipe for incompetance.
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Offline iamzack

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Soo... why do we allow these to get into contracts? Why's there no stipulation, like reason for severence?
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline iamzack

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On topic:

How accurate is this?

WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Offline Dark RevenantX

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It's missing Carl, the economist shivan.

 
I am going to have all of the left-wingers in this thread hate me for this since I'm mentioning the one document they most hate, but to be fair I'm honestly surprised no-one has brought this argument up yet.

Where does the Constitution give the federal government the power to set up a national health care system?  Show me a line that says it can.  And don't mention the preamble where it talks about "promoting the general welfare".  I hold that to be more of a declaration of intent than any actual clause of empowerment.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline TESLA

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I really dont see what all the fuss is about with ye over there in USA?

Whats wrong with a national healthcare system,

Seems like a very basic thing, that a government should set up that all people are entitled too, Well thats how it is in Europe, may not be perfect, (Ireland has the HSE, serious flaws, but government funded and works once your in the system)
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Offline General Battuta

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The government can't constitutionally do a lot of the things it does, as I understand it.

Besides, um, we just had eight years of 'living document, open to reinterpretation'....seriously, the two-facedness of this...

 

Offline iamzack

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Spardason, have you tried section 8 clause 18?

I mean, where's it say that the government can create public libraries, run fire departments, run the federal reserve, etc?
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Interstate commerce, regulation of.

Also, the ad hominem "hate the Constitution" bull**** is not welcome.
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Offline General Battuta

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Yeah, I missed that. 'Left-wingers hate the constitution?' This is kind of in line with the 'liberals are not patriots' bull**** that has been running for a few years.

Left-wingers love the Constitution as much as right-wingers. If I were a dedicated liberal I'd probably be a bit more vociferous in my response to your unnecessary insinuations.

 

Offline Nuclear1

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I am going to have all of the left-wingers in this thread hate me for this since I'm mentioning the one document they most hate...

...the Constitution...

If that's how you want to do this, than that's how we'll do it.

Sparda, that sort of ad hominem attack is absolute nonsense.  All it does is simply prove you don't know a damned thing about healthcare reform, or how our system of government works.  It also proves that you are simply blindly accepting everything that comes out of the mouths of Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, and all of the anti-American, theofascist, neocon, lying, subversive, nationalistic talking heads of the right-wing as pure fact, without bothering to do the independent research for yourself.  What you're doing is damaging and deadly to our system of logical debate and the American political way of life.

Nationalized healthcare is going to be the death of capitalism.  Slightly increased taxes are going to turn this nation into the Soviet Union where every basic necessity is rationed and all citizens live in extreme poverty.  And the Obama administration is going to be the end of America.

However, you, sir, and all your friends who think like you, will be.   You and all the Teabagging "patriots" who threaten elected officials with death for supporting health care, who destroy logical debate by screaming like Tourettes-afflicted morons at town hall meetings en masse, who carry loaded guns to the same meetings, and who actually give an ounce of credence to the crap spewing out of the mouths of the totalitarian, fascist, Nazi commentators that fill the right-wing talk airwaves.  YOU will be the death of America.

America has progressed not because we look 200 years in the past and try to live the exact same way.  We look into the past to keep our most basic principles alive: the belief that every human being has the right to life, liberty, and property; that all Americans enjoy the right to a trial by jury of their peers, and to face their accusers; that America should stand as a city upon a hill for all the world to see.  What you and your ilk INSIST on doing, however, is keeping us permanently living in the past--for all I know, neocons very well could believe that slavery is still legal, that women don't need to leave the home, and that every American should be part of an armed militia independent of the government, no matter the consequences.

It is you and your friends that make America not a city upon the hill for the entire world to emulate and be inspired by, but as the class idiot sitting in the corner with a dunce cap for all the world to look at and laugh at, or, worse, refuse to emulate.

Your claim that the American left somehow despises the Constitution absolutely sickens me to the core.  While your little friends in the Bush Administration were exploiting the fears and worries of a sincerely frightened nation, stripping away our civil liberties one at a time, ****ting on the Constitution, tearing apart the Bill of Rights to fit their just plain evil agenda of imperialism and unilateralism in unnecessary, illegal, overly-costly wars that wasted the lives of several thousand good, willing, and truly patriotic Americans, the American left was in the streets and blogs protesting the Patriot Act, demanding Gitmo shut down, and putting themselves in the crosshairs for your civil liberties and the rights of all Americans to not live in fear of each other and their own elected officials.  

And you called them traitors.  You called them un-American.  You declared them "in league with the terrorists."  You said "America, love it or leave it!"

But they didn't leave America, because they loved America.  They still do.  They love America to the point where they're willing to forgo income due to slightly higher taxes to pay for their neighbor's right to see a doctor and get the drugs necessary to treat him, sacrifice time spent with their families by attending town hall meetings to engage in reasonable debate and conversation, and risk being put on an NSA watchlist because they bad-mouthed the fascist policies of the Bush Administration.

Meanwhile, you ****ing tools sat around.  You agreed with every word that came out of the Bush Administration, Fixed News, and the extreme-right.  You did no research to support your opinion; I can point out several parts of yours and Liberator's arguments where a simple trip to Wikipedia could've proved you wrong.  You simply sat back, smiled, and nodded.  Whether you're still under Cheney's trance that America will never be safe with a Democrat in the White House, or Sarah Palin's belief that nationalized healthcare will just kill babies and seniors pointlessly, or you are truly just an evil person who would rather have another 57" TV rather than let my pregnant friend have her medicine that keeps her from experiencing unbearable nausea.

Now, since I apparently hate the Constitution and all it stands for since I support nationalized healthcare, I guess this doesn't mean ****!
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Let me put it this way:  next you think about trying one of these absoluely abhorent, low-down, un-American ad hominem arguments simply because someone has a different political belief than you do, think about the thousands of Americans YOU sent to their graves in Iraq, think of the thousands of people who will die this year and the tens of thousands more who will die in the coming years because YOU don't want your taxes raised, and think of the people who actually sacrificed something, be it their lives, time, personal safety, or freedom from fear to protect you...the people YOU continue to crucify with your right-wing, ultra-nationalist, imaginary, baseless neoconservative beliefs.

From someone who does the wear the uniform, and still believes that he is but one line of defense in preserving the goodness that is a progressive America who doesn't live all her years in the Middle Ages, to you: **** YOU!
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Offline General Battuta

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Wow. Bookmarked.

 

Offline Scotty

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