Author Topic: CP or not?  (Read 10712 times)

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Offline iamzack

  • 26
Cartoon child porn isn't child porn. It's a frakking cartoon, jesus christ.

Don't be like that dick who tried to get The Sims akilled or something because pedophiles could get rid of the nudity censor and look at barbie doll -skinned children sims.

How about we don't worry about the folks who aren't abusing children and go deal with the folks who are?
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Liberator

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There is something besides just writing the code or developing the computing power required for a true AI.  It would have to be "raised" as a human child would be.  It would have to be taught morality and ethics, simple concepts that we take for granted would have to be explained in great detail.  It won't be flick a switch and whamo, super AI mega mode SKYNET.  AIs will take at least as long as a human child to be made ready to interact with general humanity and will require specialized personnel to train them that will behave not unlike parents.
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There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 
Initially at first, however the bottleneck there is with data transmission rates.  Humans can only teach so much so fast.  If an AI really thinks so much faster and smarter than a human, then an AI would be able to raise a fellow AI quicker and easier than a human could.  Depending on the level of interaction between AI, we could have anything from direct memory transfer to bit-encoded fiber-optic transmissions of words.  An AI could use binary and a direct connection to transfer data far faster than a human talking to an AI could.  However, even if AI end up raising AI, I believe interactions with humans would be part of the curriculum to get a human's view on things, and to avoid fostering potentially hostile divisions between synthetic and organic intelligences.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline BloodEagle

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First, I'd like to give a shout-out to the Bureau. Hey guys!  :P

Second, CP laws aren't made for protecting children, they're made for punishing people who (as viewed by most modern societies) have a disturbing fetish.

 

Offline Flipside

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That's what it is used for, certainly, but no, that wasn't the intent, the law does not exist to make moral judgements, it exists to protect the public, regardless of age, from harm.

 
That's why I restrict myself to legitamite porn sites.
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Offline iamzack

  • 26
Second, CP laws aren't made for protecting children, they're made for punishing people who (as viewed by most modern societies) have a disturbing fetish.

Please tell me you don't think distribution of actual CP isn't harmful to children.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline BloodEagle

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That's what it is used for, certainly, but no, that wasn't the intent, the law does not exist to make moral judgements, it exists to protect the public, regardless of age, from harm.

Which brings us full circle to the animation aspect. How does an animated version harm a child?

Note (for those inferring something): I do find it disturbing, but that's beside the point that I'm trying to make.

----------------------------

Second, CP laws aren't made for protecting children, they're made for punishing people who (as viewed by most modern societies) have a disturbing fetish.

Please tell me you don't think distribution of actual CP isn't harmful to children.

Nice freaking use of a double-negative, there.  :no:

Actual CP (live-action [forgive the term], that is) is obviously harmful to children. However, I'm speaking about the laws regarding CP, not CP itself.

 

Offline iamzack

  • 26
Just making sure that you weren't saying what I thought you might be saying before I tore you a new one over it. :P
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 
I think we can all agree that actual live-action kiddie porn is harmful to children.  If you think otherwise, GTFO.

Now, with that out of the way, we can all safely debate whether or not animated kiddie porn is harmful to children, and whether or not CP laws should apply to it.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Locutus of Borg

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I think CP laws exist to stop people from exploiting children. If it's just a cartoon...then nobody was harmed.
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Offline iamzack

  • 26
Well, believe it or not, some people think that just possessing (real) child porn isn't harmful to children, if the person isn't producing any.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 
But by trying to possess it, it makes a demand, which people will fill. No demand, no kiddie porn. Basic economics.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Well, believe it or not, some people think that just possessing (real) child porn isn't harmful to children, if the person isn't producing any.

Technically they're correct. However they probably paid for it somehow since it's not exactly floating around free, so they're contributing to the problem.
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Offline BloodEagle

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I think CP laws exist to stop people from exploiting children. If it's just a cartoon...then nobody was harmed.

And yet, if you have animated CP (or something that looks remotely like it) in your possesion, you'll still get sent to a maximum security facility, where your new lifelong pedo-label will follow you. And that won't end well. :/

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Thread retitled. Better?

I gott agree with G-man there, two threads in a week is abit much.

However the debate intrigues me, firstly if you use said images for jollies and (the next point is integral to my point of view) you're an adult. That's wrong, whereas teenagers can't really help it. Grown ups whould know better.

Unless it's interweb lol-talk of course.
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Offline iamzack

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I can't recall ever hearing about that actually happening, bloodeagle, at least not in the US. And I do mean having ONLY animated CP, and none real.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Mongoose

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This is actually a topic I've done a decent bit of thinking about, since I followed news postings and discussions about the Christopher Handley case on Anime News Network for quite some time.  (For those unfamiliar with that particular case, these are a few postings that delve into it a bit, though I'm sure there's plenty of more news-ey stories about it scattered around. Interestingly enough, this case wound up having to do more with interstate commerce and obscenity than straight-up CP, as the judge in it ruled part of the PROTECT Act unconstitutional.)  It's something that really does call into question the true intent of the laws prohibiting possession and distribution of CP.  Like Flipside said, the theoretical intent of such laws is to rightly protect vulnerable members of society from truly horrific and awful abuse.  However, the application of said laws often seems to trail into the realm of thought crimes more than anything else...and that's something I can't condone in any circumstances.  You can't arrest someone for imagining something, nor can you for putting pen to paper and drawing a cartoonish representation of a human being.  That's about as un-free as a society could be.  Unfortunately, as in many other instances, the cries of "Think of the children!" wind up drowning out any chance of rational and intelligent debate on this particular topic.  Can you even imagine the sort of public outcry a member of Congress would cause for standing up and introducing a bill preventing prosecution over cartoons of naked children?  He'd be run out of office on a rail.  And forget about trying to fund an unbiased scientific study on whether virtual instances of CP promote consumption of the real product, or instead provide a harmless outlet for people with pedophilic tendencies; as massively useful as such a study would be, no one wants to touch it.

From where I'm sitting, both the production and distribution/possession of actual CP should be blatantly illegal; the former for obvious reasons, and the latter because it at least indirectly promotes the former.  However, when you move away from real human beings to lines on a paper, or polygons on a screen...you shouldn't be able to legislate that.  If it's not actually harming another human being, the law has no business in it.  Like I said, we don't really know whether such media actually serves as a healthy outlet for people who are hard-wired along pedophilic lines.  Sexual attraction isn't just a target that one can re-direct via one's own willpower; I doubt most people who are considered pedophiles would ever walk down that path given the choice beforehand.  If material like loli/shouta hentai helps people get their rocks off and prevents them from trying to do the same with a real child, then so much the better.

 

Offline redsniper

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Cartoon child porn isn't child porn. It's a frakking cartoon, jesus christ.

Don't be like that dick who tried to get The Sims akilled or something because pedophiles could get rid of the nudity censor and look at barbie doll -skinned children sims.

How about we don't worry about the folks who aren't abusing children and go deal with the folks who are?
This.

Sexual attraction isn't just a target that one can re-direct via one's own willpower; I doubt most people who are considered pedophiles would ever walk down that path given the choice beforehand.  If material like loli/shouta hentai helps people get their rocks off and prevents them from trying to do the same with a real child, then so much the better.

aaaand this.

You can't ban stuff just because it's icky. There are plenty of people out there who'd love to ban violent video games because they find them distasteful. If you want to argue that fapping to drawn children will turn you into a child rapist, then you're getting into Jack Thompson territory.
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Offline Bobboau

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I hope all you 'punish the pedo' people aren't American, I know you are, but I can hope you don't have such an anti-American view of what a government is supposed to be that you think the state should destroy people who make a drawing that offends your sensibilities. where in the constitution is the government given the mandate to force any sort of cultural norm on people, oh, that's right, it says the exact opposite. the mindset that the government is supposed to force people to be better, is authoritarian, fascistic and wrong. I hope you all were at least liberals, not the 'constitutional' conservatives. if you want to have freedom you can't go about criminalizing people you don't like if they are not actually hurting anyone. being more interested in stopping other people doing things that you don't like but do not effect you than protecting your own liberty is how this country has fallen so far into this authoritarian **** hole it is now, 'think of the children' is how they get you to give up your own rights.
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