[Scotty]

I probably shouldn't be feeding the troll responding, but here goes:

Well, when you have people here who are blinded by patriotism (always follow uncle Sam and believe every false stereotype they hear about other countries and say stupid things like "the usa is the best") and seem to care about freedom moe than everything, which if too much freeedom is present and is not balanced, can affect safety, morals, health, and kindness of a culture, then their are problems.

Completely irrelevant, and also irrelevant to 95% of topics brought up in this forum.

Also, if a culture and the people in it don't want to make changes for the greater good and instead, only wants to buy unnecessary toys for themselves with a lot of their that money which makes them struggle even more in an economy crisis, then that's what happens, and someday it could be America's undoing, like Rome, perhaps.

So, Rome fell because all the people in Rome liked to spend money on toys.  Wonderful logic.  Perhaps the invading barbarians came for the toys?

Too much money to "the self" and not enough to things like healthcare and the infrastructure causes problems. To me, I can see severe problems with cultures who have an obsession with "the self" and money being embedded into it.

Healthcare, even without all this "self" condemnation, is pretty damn expensive.  THAT is why people are uninsured, not because they are materialists.  Part two of this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this thread.

It's their weakness and they became drones since America can't accept that it is wrong in so many ways. Lifestyle, violent crime, health, lack of decent fresh food, pollution, self discipline, etc. Far from being right. I just wish more here would accept that. The first step to good change is accepting that there is a problem.

Okay, so here you say that America is full of drones because we're materialists?  I think you need to examine what materialist means, or drone, for that matter.  The two are not related in this context.  Violent Crime is not a hallmark of the "average" American, so I don't see exactly what you mean here.  "Decent" is a completely arbitrary term, which we could argue the standards of from now to the energy death of the universe.  And you wish that more people would accept that they are "materialistic and unhealthy" (Capitalist PIGS!).  The first step to good change is accepting there is a problem, not making one up out of thin air, especially one so distantly related to the problem being discussed that they might as well be from different planets.

I still feel that if people made better health choices in their life and had enough self respect to do so, healthcare would cost less since there would be less people in the hospital at the same time (not crouded) and thus, less doctors needed and working less hours.

Nevermind that people can get SICK.  Nevermind that when doctors work less they MAKE LESS MONEY (and don't bring up any bull**** about doctors being greedy materialists.  Money exists for trade, and trade exists because not everyone can grow crops in their backyard).  Hospitals aren't "crowded."  Unless you have REALLY ****ed yourself up or are there for surgery, you generally don't stay in a hospital overnight.  Now, hospitals can be "busy," but busy != crowded.

[General Battuta]

Just let him rant. He's an unintentional troll.

[Scotty]

Eh, long week, and I figured to go for the combo after Bajika.

[NGTM-1R]

Just let him rant. He's an unintentional troll.

Then ban him. He's still a troll whether he means it or not.

[High Max]

Think what you want.

[Scotty]

Point is, internal problems can be caused by selfishness and silly choices, like Rome had happened

But that is demonstrably false!  Rome was sacked by barbarian tribes after a decline of SEVERAL decades of raiding from those self-same tribes.  Rome was sacked an burned by the invading barbarians.  The fall of Rome was decidedly NOT because its citizens got selfish.  In case you missed it, the invading tribes conducted raiding as a WAY OF LIFE.  The entire reasons of the Viking raids, a thousand years later, was so the Northmen could take what they couldn't make themselves.  The materialism or selfishness of any of the invaded peoples didn't matter a single iota.  Look up any of the great tribes:  The Mongols, the Tartars, the Teutons, the Vikings.  They ALL raided, and didn't really give a damn about what the people they attacked had to start with.

As for violent crime, that is a result of too much freedom. I didn't say taht is the hallmark of an average American. The problem is in existance, but Scotty and some others can't see it because they are too patriotic and thus, don't open their minds to other countries and cultures. I choose to think outside the box.

Bull****.  Violent crime happens under any amount of freedom ANYWHERE.  Else why would a totalitarian state such as, say, Soviet Russia, have issues with violent crime.  In Russia, it was because of famine.  But I can tell you it sure as hell wasn't because they had too much freedom!  Pfssh, outside the box, more outside the realm of reason.

[Mika]

To make long post short, the nationalized healthcare has these advantages:
1) People that don't have money at the moment do not become disease vectors.
2) Creates stability in the society as it is perceived justified that everybody gets treatment no matter their financial status.

The bad side is that everybody has to pay. What it doesn't prevent is doctors having their own private cliniques. Which sometimes creates a conflict of interest as the same doctor can have his own private clinique and work in nationalized healthcare clinique. I hope they would take a of note this in legalization.

Although it is typical that the management level in government organization tends to grow. Those management level positions are never considered to be targets in cut-offs. But this is not totally unfamiliar or unheard of in corporate world either. I reiterate my statement that cost reductions only tend to create more costs. What could work is internal competition inside the organization, this could keep the bureaucratic tendencies in check.

If I would need to pay for a medical insurance and there would be a risk of not getting it when it is really necessary, I wouldn't have second thoughts which type of health care system I would choose.

[Kosh]

As for violent crime, that is a result of too much freedom.

George Orwell is spinning in his grave........

[NGTM-1R]

George Orwell is spinning in his grave........

I'm going to try and use the rapid spinning of every anarchist ever to generate free power.

[Kosh]

George Orwell is spinning in his grave........

I'm going to try and use the rapid spinning of every anarchist ever to generate free power.

Better yet we can connect them together to make a perpetual motion machine.


EDIT: But really "violent crime is a result of too much freedom", that is seriously something straight out of 1984.

[Flipside]

I would like to note that the countries with the worst records of violence against their own people tend to be the ones with the least freedom, as to whether that falls into 'violent crime'? Well, that just shows the inherent weakness of the argument, crime is a legal concept as much as a moral one, Saddam wasn't a criminal under his own law, for example.

[High Max]

...

[Scotty]

I am aware that there is never one cause to things like this and that life is never that simple, but in my post above

Apparently not, because in every single thread about a real life topic, you come in here babbling about how America is too selfish or has too much freedom.

[iamzack]

I didn't even read all of the topic since I would get bored. I only read the post before mine, from blackhole, and some after the unrelated post I made earlier.

Call me a troll or otherwise. I am a troll in the sense that I don't want to read so many posts or be 100% on topic. I accept the responsibility of that. Goodnight.

And you wonder why everyone gets so irritated when you post. Geez.

[High Max]

But I don't care. How does it hurt me? I know no one here personally. I take the ridicule and don't get too worried and that is at least worthy of some admiration?

[Flipside]

I wish there was an Internet restraining order...

I'd make sure you two could never go within 2 threads of each other

[Scotty]

Then don't post, simple as that.

Aaaand then you edit it.  You honestly believe that Americans care too little about all others and all that jazz?  STOP PROVING IT.

[High Max]

I edit it to clean up spelling, grammar, and add more stuff. I do that a lot. I make an effort to have good spelling and grammar and look back at my posts and fix them up.

[Scotty]

Yeah, like the Mongols c. a long time ago.  Or Japan c. 1930-40s.  China for a long time. 

You edited in:

"How does it hurt me? I know no one here personally."
and I just noticed:
"I take the ridicule and don't get too worried and that is at least worthy of some admiration?"

to the first, I refer you to my STOP PROVING IT message.
to the second, NO.  That fact that you elicit such ridicule through idiotic and meaningless posting on a forum not even about the subject at hand should be hint enough to stop doing it.

[NGTM-1R]

I edit it to clean up spelling, grammar, and add more stuff. I do that a lot. I make an effort to have good spelling and grammar and look back at my posts and fix them up.

Compared to friendly cultures like some countries in the orient, they do.

You mean the place where corruption is a way of life? Because, you know, that's pretty much how East Asia works except for Japan. And Japan has other issues.

Also, you have a habit of duplicitous editting, like the one you did in this very thread trying to call me out. (And failing.)