[Nuke]

we need a materials system!

rle is pretty effective on intrerface graphics that have a lot of consecutive pixels of the same value. this pretty much includes all border space (especially in the vertical).  you can use that space for alignment purposes without chewing up much more space than the part of the image that is actually useful. but it wont save any memory over dds. just a small amout of drive space.

i also keep all my images in photoshop format, with layers and channels intact, then export to dds (or other formats) as needed. all in all some textures represent 14 channels, 2 of which absolutely cannot be compressed. normal uv which can be stored in an 88 dds. you can store the remaning 12 channels in 4 other dxt1 maps or 3 dxt5 maps. you can assign channels which require more depth to the green and alpha channels.

or you can store every map in 2 dxt1s and 2 dxt5s. use 2 of the dxt5 alpha channels (least lossy) for uv normal, 3 of the green channels (second least lossy) for rgb diffuse. 3 of three red channels (most lossy) for the specular color, 3 of the blue (most lossy) channels can store the glow color.  the remaining rgb values can be assigned to env, height and alpha. a container image format can use this setup, though im not sure if thats gonna be a headache at rendering, not sure looking up rgb in 3 different images stored in memory can be done as fast as extracting all the channels from a single image. hopefully its as easy as passing the correct pointers.

[The E]

Somehow, I don't think you've quite understood what this is about. Noone is seriously proposing to use png as a texture format; It's interface screens we're dealing with here. And believe me when I say that run-length compression does **** all for those. Especially when you create pretty ones. And a small amount of drivespace saved is important when you want to do mods that look pretty but don't take up 130+ MB for the interface alone.

[Aardwolf]

Changing my vote to "other".

I no longer have any opinion on this matter.

[TopAce]

You can't honestly expect every single modder to know the subtle difference between these formats. Because for a non-artist, all you can judge from is file size, and JPG is very good at that!

You can't honestly expect every single modder to constantly check what kind of stuff the SCP removes on a daily basis, and revise their work accordingly. Updating, re-VPing, retesting and reuploading constantly is a lot of hassle, not to mention that because of the very frequent updates, there'll be numerous versions all around the Internet, assuming you don't have a control over all the mirrors.

You also can't honestly expect every single player to know that the SCP no longer supports JPG, and that's why the mod he's about to play doesn't work. I imagine that a lot of players would quite simply vent their frustration at the modders and rate their work 0/10 just because he can't run it.

Removing features is an irresponsible and self-centered move. You don't like JPG? Fine, then don't use it, but if someone from the SCP had bothered to implement JPG support, don't remove it.

[Spoon]

What Topace said.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

Yes.

[The E]

You can't honestly expect every single modder to know the subtle difference between these formats. Because for a non-artist, all you can judge from is file size, and JPG is very good at that!

You can't honestly expect every single modder to constantly check what kind of stuff the SCP removes on a daily basis, and revise their work accordingly. Updating, re-VPing, retesting and reuploading constantly is a lot of hassle, not to mention that because of the very frequent updates, there'll be numerous versions all around the Internet, assuming you don't have a control over all the mirrors.

You also can't honestly expect every single player to know that the SCP no longer supports JPG, and that's why the mod he's about to play doesn't work. I imagine that a lot of players would quite simply vent their frustration at the modders and rate their work 0/10 just because he can't run it.

Removing features is an irresponsible and self-centered move. You don't life JPG? Fine, then don't use it, but if someone from the SCP had bothered to implement JPG support, don't remove it.

I think you're overreacting just a little bit. For one, jpg was never used heavily. Making the changes necessary should be a minor job. And it can be implemented in a way that warns the player about the problem, and tells him what to do and where to direct their anger properly.

[TopAce]

And it can be implemented in a way that warns the player about the problem, and tells him what to do and where to direct their anger properly.

If that's the way it'll be implemented, or an automated conversion program will be implemented along with it, then it's fine by me.

[Mongoose]

I've still yet to see anyone giving any sort of reason why you'd even want to remove JPG support in the first place, no matter how unfavorable that particular format might be.  I feel safe in assuming that doing so won't magically give us a 10 FPS increase in-game.  If there are mods out there that do use JPEGs, and would be broken if support for them were removed, I don't see how the team has any business in doing so.

[Zacam]

So. In looking things code wise over and having a think:

It was a lot easier putting PNG in as a replacement for JPG. But it is not impossible to have the two.

So, the two it is. There will be builds soon showcasing the event as soon as some more testing is done.

Now there are more potential choices for people to use.

My apologies for allowing my personal tastes to over rule my community focus. Vote changed.

[Zacam]

Sorry for the Double Post.

We can close the Poll now. It's useless at this point.

Secondly: While PNG support may or may not make it into the code, there will be no further discussion of removing JPG or any other format from the engine. This will also include PNG if it is found or made to be stable.

To that end, Read Here! for some builds made that support using PNG files.

I highly encourage people to test these builds, even if you have _no_ interest in the PNG format or this discussion. We want to make sure we are not putting in something that breaks something else.

I also _HIGHLY_ recommend testing the Inferno builds as well.

[SypheDMar]

It was a lot easier putting PNG in as a replacement for JPG. But it is not impossible to have the two.

That could've changed a few opinions. Though I agree that having both would be friendlier.

[Flaming_Sword]

...and poll is locked.

Next up... vi vs emacs

[Scooby_Doo]

...and poll is locked.

Next up... vi vs emacs

Emacs!

LOL I could never stand vi.


Anyways we should spend more time developing a material system rather than this LOL

[Mongoose]

You volunteering?

[Scooby_Doo]

HAHAHA sure if you want it done in C# 

[Getter Robo G]

What happen to Bob? Wasn't this on the table 4 years ago?

(IIRC it started in regards to something about shading and then revamping the whole materials system to enable shading, or words to that effect?)