Author Topic: Windows 7  (Read 10985 times)

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Offline Thaeris

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Sounds good. Perhaps I should start looking for a student discount somewhere...
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Offline Mongoose

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That does sound pretty good.  I probably will recommend it to my family, though I honestly haven't spent enough time on their machine to be familiar with many of Vista's foibles.  I've had more than enough of that godawful UAC implementation, though. :p

This topic reminds me of a blog post I read the other day about how the days of the new version of an OS being a massive, must-have upgrade are apparently mostly in the past, especially when compared to browser development.  Do you guys think the author has a good point?

 

Offline CP5670

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I think that's correct. In my case, the only reason I'm interested in getting it is 64-bit support. I am still on 32-bit XP and it does everything I want except for this.

 

Offline Mongoose

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I agree with him too.  For what I do with my computer on a regular basis, XP does literally everything that I need.  I don't have a 64-bit processor in here, so there's no reason in that regard; it would really be upgrading just for the sake of upgrading.  If/when I do build a system from the ground up, I'll throw 7 on there as a matter of course, but that'd be about it.

 

Offline Bob-san

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Vista 64 was kick-ass. I have run it since a year post-release. I've used Win 7 Betas already and I've had no real complaints. Microsoft outdid themselves; whatever nagging issues left in Vista seem to be addressed. I won't be upgrading immediately, but Windows 7 is well worth the prices.
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Offline The E

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This topic reminds me of a blog post I read the other day about how the days of the new version of an OS being a massive, must-have upgrade are apparently mostly in the past, especially when compared to browser development.  Do you guys think the author has a good point?

The Author ignores security problems. XP's security model was BAD, especially when installed by a non-expert. It took Vista to fix it, and 7 to do the fix right. Then there are things like a new driver model that can't be easily hacked on top of an existing install without causing a ton of support issues.
Then we have things like support for 64-bit processors, or 4+ GB of RAM that comes with it.
So, no. I don't think we have reached a golden age of eternally stable Operating systems. There will always be the occasional decision to make between backwards compatibility and new features. Keeping backwards compatibility is fine, to a degree. But at some point, as Apple has demonstrated and MS is trying to come around to, you just have to cut support for some hack someone came up with to work around a problem that doesn't exist anymore.
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Offline Mongoose

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I don't think the author was stating that there's going to be One OS To Rule Them All for all time, or that future OSes won't contain useful updates and new features that make them worth using.  Instead, he's saying that the days of a new OS version being some sort of watershed moment that just about demanded an upgrade are largely in the past.  Windows 95 represented the start of the modern Windows interface as we know it today.  98 was designed with the emergence of the Internet in mind.  2000 provided the features of NT with a modern interface.  And to cap it all, XP merged the two main OS lines, taking the stability of one and compatibility of the other and creating what turned out to be a generally rock-solid experience with a host of new features.  But Vista didn't do anything as monumental as any of those previous versions...at least for most people, it was just kind of there.  (For instance, I feel like the vast majority of people wound up putting more RAM in their systems because of Vista, not acquiring Vista in order to take advantage of their previous large amounts of RAM.)  A lot of end-users didn't have the specs to run it at first, and businesses didn't feel that there was a large benefit to offset the downside of losing so much compatibility.  And while 7 appears to be a marked improvement, it really comes across as more of a fixed Vista than a revolutionary new experience.  In that context, I agree with the author in that OSes aren't exactly something to get excited about anymore.

And even though Vista's security implementation was demonstrably better than XP's, to the end-user it appeared to be functionally worse due to the extremely naggy UAC dialogs. (Seriously, the thing's asked me for an admin password when attempting to delete a shared shortcut from my desktop.  A ****ing shortcut.) I've heard that 7's implementation is significantly better, which is a huge relief, but even so, in an enterprise setting, I think it's going to take a bit of time before everyone starts jumping on the bandwagon.

 

Offline Rodo

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So.. I think I'm getting it too, thnks for the mini review IceFire  :yes:
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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Just installed yesterday. I just booted from the DVD and did a custom install, and it didn't ask me for a Vista disk, thank god. So far it works like a dream, although it remains to be seen how much of that is just my computer thanking me for a reformat.

One snag: My laptop has an integrated Dolby 5.1 sound system, but the appropriate drivers do not seem to have been made available for Windows 7 yet. I got the Realtek audio driver from the Lenovo website, which is giving me good sound, but still doesn't seem to be taking full advantage of the hardware.
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Offline High Max

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« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 11:48:59 pm by High Max »
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Offline IceFire

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I'm on tigerdirect.com and I'm about to buy Win 7 professional 64 bit. Sounds like a good choice? It's also only 149.99 here.
Any reason for going with the Professional?  Most people only need the features of Home Premium.  If you do then yeah go for it... but otherwise save the cash and go for Home Premium.
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Offline High Max

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« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 11:49:11 pm by High Max »
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Offline MP-Ryan

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So, here are my thoughts on Windows 7, if anyone is interested:


The Quick And Dirty Summary: The best Windows operating system I've set up to date. Fast, simple, and incredibly intuitive, it'll take you an hour to figure out the new UI at most and you'll be converted. Rock solid stable, and very user friendly without "dumbing it down."

TL;DR Version

-Gone is the quick launch bar and traditional method of tracking open Windows on the taskbar. Gone too is the ability to turn on a Classic Start menu, and even the Classic theme retains the new UI features. You can't run this as a Windows 98 clone, and let me just say that despite my doing this even on Vista, the change is nothing but a good thing.

-The new taskbar interface allows any program to be "pinned" to the Taskbar. While all open programs display their window listing on the taskbar, pinning a program allows you to retain that icon as a shortcut as well. It's an integration of the old quicklaunch bar with the window itself, allowing it to act as both a shortcut and a Window identifier, should you so choose.

-Jump lists are "recent history" for shortcuts on the Start Menu and pinned Taskbar items. If you go to a particular website often, or open particular folders, you can pin that into a jump list for the program icon itself. Thus, I now right-click on my Windows explorer taskbar icon and have all of my regularly used folders at my fingertips. Jump lists can be set to create automatically based on recent history, or you can pin particular items yourself.

-The notification area has been largely re-worked and we know have complete control over what icons are displayed and when. Only want to see your antivirus if there's an notification? Three clicks and done. This is a long-overdue change in Windows 7, and it works great.

-File organization: In addition to the standard OS-created document folders, we now have the option of Libraries. You can still move the location of My Documents, etc, but a Library allows you to add multiple different directory locations into a single collection. It's a unique implementation that a lot of us may have little use for at first because we've gotten accustomed to hyper-organizing everything in previous Windows OS', but for a new or basic user they will be a great tool.

-File sharing: I'm still of mixed emotions about the File sharing scheme in 7. We now have a "Homegroup" option that allows you to very quickly and very easily share particular folders with other computers on your home network, and password protect those should you so choose. Think "Domain implementation in a workgroup." The only trouble I'm seeing with it, which may or may not go away once I've migrated our laptop to Windows 7 as well, is that it doesn't appear I can share the root of a partition, which is a rather annoying problem I'm going to have to get around in order to sync the data partitions on our two computers. Fortunately, advanced, permissions-based file sharing is still available if you want to shut off the new Homegroup feature.

-Program compatibility: I haven't had anything that worked in Vista stop working in Windows 7. I've now finished installing pretty much everything. The only program I had even the slightest hiccup with was Borderlands, through Steam. For whatever reason, if I tried to copy in my settings folder from Vista, Borderlands would over-write it on launch every single time. I finally had to manually re-tweak the INIs and then the game didn't over-write them. I still have no idea why this happened.

-Drivers: This will be your most hassle-free installation of Windows yet. When I installed it, the drivers for literally everything (including the RAID drivers, which were a ***** with Vista) installed themselves. The only drivers I added manually were the latest nVidia video drivers, the latest Auzentech sound drivers, and the printer driver (which, despite being designed for Windows XP, works flawlessly).

-The dreaded UAC: I shut this off within about 5 minutes of installing Vista, but no more on Windows 7. This OS does UAC right - it's unobtrusive, configurable, and it only shows up during a major change by default. And unlike the Vista one, which was slow as hell and drove you crazy, this is nothing more than a quick dialogue box that gets your attention and then goes away the second you authorize it. Finally.

So that's it for the big changes I've noticed. It's very customizeable, so it will fit the needs of new users and people who've been using Windows since 3.1 and cursing it every step of the way. Microsoft finally did this one right, and I think it was money well spent. If anyone is still using XP and Vista and hedging their bets to wait and see how 7 pans out, my advice to you is to find it at the cheapest price you can and buy it immediately. You won't regret it.

Incidentally, I bought an upgrade edition and performed a clean install by booting to the DVD. For anyone repeating that procedure, a few additional comments:
-You don't require another Windows disc to insert when you perform a clean install.
-Make sure you have a lot of time. On my system, it took a good 10 minutes just to boot to the DVD. Don't restart thinking it's frozen, even if the access lights stop blinking - it's just very very slow.
-The only way to make partition changes during an upgrade is to clean install after booting to DVD.
-DO NOT enter your license key during the installation. After the OS finishes installing, put it into Windows and then verify it online.
-Windows will auto-update if left to connect to the Internet during the install process. I recommend doing it.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline Mongoose

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-Jump lists are "recent history" for shortcuts on the Start Menu and pinned Taskbar items. If you go to a particular website often, or open particular folders, you can pin that into a jump list for the program icon itself. Thus, I now right-click on my Windows explorer taskbar icon and have all of my regularly used folders at my fingertips. Jump lists can be set to create automatically based on recent history, or you can pin particular items yourself.
This almost seems worth the price of admission by itself.  I've grown so very sick and tired of continuously having to dig ten folders deep to get to some of my most frequently-visited directories.

 

Offline Topgun

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As I just told someone else:

There is absolutely no reason to run Windows Vista or 7 in anything other than 64-bit.  Period.
FALSE

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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As I just told someone else:

There is absolutely no reason to run Windows Vista or 7 in anything other than 64-bit.  Period.
FALSE

1.  I see nothing in that link you posted that even mentions 64-bit compatibility.  Though the downloads section has x64 builds on it.
2.  A single emulation program isn't really a reason to buy a product that doesn't take full advantage of your hardware.  Dual-boot to XP or Linux if you really need a native 32-bit OS.  All 64-bit editions of Windows are capable of emulating 32-bit software modes, though, so it should only be an issue for very few things.

Running Windows 7 in 32-bit on a x64 processor is a waste of resources.  Seriously.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline Topgun

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As I just told someone else:

There is absolutely no reason to run Windows Vista or 7 in anything other than 64-bit.  Period.
FALSE

1.  I see nothing in that link you posted that even mentions 64-bit compatibility.  Though the downloads section has x64 builds on it.
2.  A single emulation program isn't really a reason to buy a product that doesn't take full advantage of your hardware.  Dual-boot to XP or Linux if you really need a native 32-bit OS.  All 64-bit editions of Windows are capable of emulating 32-bit software modes, though, so it should only be an issue for very few things.

Running Windows 7 in 32-bit on a x64 processor is a waste of resources.  Seriously.
oops, I misunderstood you. you and I are in absolute agreement, sorry for the confusion.

  

Offline CP5670

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Most of the UI changes won't really affect me. I have always opened programs directly from a file manager utility called Turbo Navigator, and have no quick launch bar and a very minimal start menu and desktop. That program is effectively my desktop. :p

Quote
the printer driver (which, despite being designed for Windows XP, works flawlessly).

Does the printer need the driver at all or is it just using the basic Microsoft driver? If it's the former, I wonder if some basic XP drivers like this Yamaha MIDI thing actually work on Vista and 7. That's the main thing I would want the Pro version and its XP mode for (as well as my existing XP install, for that matter).

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Does the printer need the driver at all or is it just using the basic Microsoft driver? If it's the former, I wonder if some basic XP drivers like this Yamaha MIDI thing actually work on Vista and 7. That's the main thing I would want the Pro version and its XP mode for (as well as my existing XP install, for that matter).

It didn't automatically find the printer and I had to install the driver manually.

I bought the Pro version because it was so cheap in the pre-order, but if all you want Pro for is XP Mode, just download VMWare and run XP that way.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline CP5670

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I'm guessing you mean Virtual PC, which has the same core as the XP mode and does what I want, but it's a little clumsy to use and the XP mode is supposed to integrate nicely into the main OS shell. Although I will still need a separate XP install to play certain games with the driver unless it actually works on 7 natively.