[General Battuta]

Yeah. And, historically, trans individuals have been ghettoized, persecuted, and - as you said - destroyed.

Special protections are required in order to secure the safety, equality, and well-being of trans individuals. The same may be true of any group whose membership is not choice-based.

Most of us are just lucky enough to belong to groups that do not require these protections; so far white males haven't had much to fear. I'm sure we can all imagine scenarios where we would request such special protection, however.

[StarSlayer]

Reminds me of an exercise in a college class where the teacher asked all the guys to describe what they do when they get their car at a parking lot at night.  Which generally is summed up by "walk to car, get in car, drive away."  She then asked the girls and it was like hearing an HRT team prepping for a raid on a meth lab full of fugitives.  Makes you appreciate what it's like having to think about your safety when doing everyday things.

[Flipside]

I think the problem that needs surmounting is knowing when its the monkey talking, pretending that little stereotypes, prejudices and fears won't ever happen is, at least at this stage of our evolution, a pipe dream, however, I think the first step on that path is learning to realise when those prejudices are being powered by something that can, if watched, be controlled.

I'll admit, I am 'aware' of trans-sexual people when they are in the room, I cannot simply write them off as part of a crowd, the label 'different' will flag in my head, but I always try to view that opinion objectively, that it's actually just a kind of hyper-territorial behaviour.

Humans are far from free from the Tribal mindset, but it's all been confused by the sheer number of tribes, from family, to gender, to political belief, to religious belief, to sexuality etc, the list goes on, we are all members of several tribes, and sometimes the rituals and requirements of one clash with those of another, and the need to defend the tribal structure will often lead to quite violent cullings, expulsions and persecutions of people who were guilty of nothing more than being 'other'.

[castor]

However, there are some things I never have, don't and never will consider normal

There is absolutely no way you could be wrong.

And there is absolutely nothing anyone could do about it.

[Flipside]

Actually, there's always at least one person who could do something about it, but they have to want to Never is a long time.

[TrashMan]

Oy!  Ahh...so much reading into things.


It's farely simple.
What I'd want is some genetic screening so we can get rid of all those nasty sickneses (like diabetes) and problems (like false gender/mindset..whatever)

For the second part..it's kinda hard to explain. I wish them no harm and I feel sorry for them and I wish them well.
But treating like it's the most normal thing in the world? no..cause it's simply not. Like I said...hard to explain. But doesn't matter anyway.

[Aardwolf]

It's farely simple.

Nice typo.

What I'd want is some genetic screening so we can get rid of all those nasty sickneses (like diabetes)

Good idea!

and problems (like false gender/mindset..whatever)

Way to make it seem like those two are at all related. 

For the second part..it's kinda hard to explain. I wish them no harm and I feel sorry for them and I wish them well.

They don't need to have people feel sorry for them.

But treating like it's the most normal thing in the world? no..cause it's simply not. Like I said...hard to explain. But doesn't matter anyway.

Nobody's asking you to treat it as normal. But abornmality is not wrong, and should not be treated as such.

[Flipside]

It's strange, because if there is one idea that always made my flesh crawl, it's the concept of designer babies and genetic purification, because the chances are we will be pouring Chlorine in the Gene-pool, take away the 'blips' and you may very well damage the entire mechanism that we use to evolve, and I couldn't even being to describe the possible impact on our immune systems and ability to adapt to diseases.

[Snail]

Oy!   Ahh...so much reading into things.


It's farely simple.
What I'd want is some genetic screening so we can get rid of all those nasty sickneses (like diabetes) and problems (like false gender/mindset..whatever)

For the second part..it's kinda hard to explain. I wish them no harm and I feel sorry for them and I wish them well.
But treating like it's the most normal thing in the world? no..cause it's simply not. Like I said...hard to explain. But doesn't matter anyway.

Eugenics FTL

[General Battuta]

Thank you for the clarification, Trashman. That was much less awful than I'd feared.

If your screening program were ever implemented, fine, but I think people should also have access to another fundamental right: the ability to reassign their sex whenever they see fit.

I think it's problematic to treat transgender individuals as 'abnormal' or to feel sorry for them, because that implies looking down on them. They are born with a disadvantage, but often that turns them into remarkable people, and while their lives are more challenging than ours, they may turn out better as a result.

Trans individuals are statistically unlikely, yes. But I've lived alongside a transgender person in my dorm for the past four years. She (originally he) is no different from anybody else: she loves Baldur's Gate, Scrabble, food, entertainment, good books, a good night out. The only problem is that she has to deal with questions, stares, nervous titters, and the knowledge that she will always draw confusion and misperception. This makes her rather introverted, simply because dealing with people is kind of a pain in the ass.

There are many things that aren't 'normal' but which we accept joyfully and without skepticism. Transgender individuals should be the same.

However, there are some things I never have, don't and never will consider normal

There is absolutely no way you could be wrong.

And there is absolutely nothing anyone could do about it.

When 'normal' carries the connotation of 'normative' and 'normative' has always meant 'good', then yes, it's worth challenging.

[Sushi]

Coincidentally, I watched Gattaca last night! How relevant!

[zookeeper]

For the second part..it's kinda hard to explain. I wish them no harm and I feel sorry for them and I wish them well.
But treating like it's the most normal thing in the world? no..cause it's simply not. Like I said...hard to explain. But doesn't matter anyway.

Hard to explain? Explaining your views is hard only if you don't really know what they are exactly. Unless you actually manage the explanation, it's quite a fair assumption that all you have is a vague fuzzy feeling.

[High Max]

*_*

[General Battuta]

Reread my previous posts, thanks. Your question is answered there.

[The E]

@Gen Bat: What about the right of freedom of speech? That right will be infringed if Trashman gets into trouble for expressing his opinion?

Freedom of Speech? On a moderated forum? Does not exist. "There is no such thing as speech that is free. You gotta pay for everything that you say."

[High Max]

*_*

[Flipside]

As the old saying goes, 'Freedom of Speech ends when your fist reaches my nose', when someone starts saying that pregnant women should be screened for 'defects' such as gender-assignment, I do start to worry, because that's an incredibly slippery road.

For example, there's an easy way to get rid of the racism row in the US, you could adjust fertilised eggs so that all children born to any parent was white, that way, no race problem, but, not in a million years, would people consider the gains worth the cost. You need to stop and think very carefully before talking about screening children, some things, like hepititis etc have a direct impact on the persons ability to live a normal life, and, yes, I could accept defending against those, but others, like the existence of Transgenderism, racial characteristics etc, do not effect the person's ability to live a perfectly normal life depending on social acceptability, it's other people that are the problem.

There's a motto in Medicine, which states "Above all, do no harm", fixing transgenderism etc is not something which needs to be done for the person to be healthy, it is unneccesary surgery, and actually goes against the Hippocratic Oath.

Society is faced with two choices, either it can change and stop attacking the different, or it can force the different to conform, either socially or medically. One way is progress, the other is stagnation.

[High Max]

*_*

[General Battuta]

 

Anyway, a misconception you labor under is that human beings are in control of their lives. The situation has a powerful impact on all of us, as does our genetic disposition. Many 'fat' people actually have a healthy weight that's simply high, and they can live long healthy lives at that weight.

[High Max]

*_*