[Thaeris]

So true. Just look at StarCraft or AoE. Sprite animation at... maybe not its best, but darn near close!

Age is relatively arbitrary for good games or sims. The only really notable discrepancy is in terms of realism, which many games and sims of the early 90's were lacking in due to the lack of processing power available to the old computers. Those old games are shockingly playable, however...

Strange to think about it, but it is interesting to think of how a "realistic" flight sim from the 90's feels so "arcadey" now. 

[Stormkeeper]

Dragon Age is damn good. Spiritual sucessor to Baldur's Gate, it is.

[Tyrian]

Hmm...I'm going to look into a few of these, especially X-Plane.  I'm an engineering student and I have an X52 flight stick.  Are there any good RTS games out there, aside from C&C 3?

[Thaeris]

Hmm...I'm going to look into a few of these, especially X-Plane.  I'm an engineering student and I have an X52 flight stick.  Are there any good RTS games out there, aside from C&C 3?

Really? Good news. If I may ask, where do you attend university/college?

If I can reccommed a strategy game, I'd suggest one of Battlefront.com's "Combat Mission" titles, though I didn't care for the newest line in the series. Basically, they're RTS and turn based at the same time. There is a planning phase where you issue orders to your troops, and an execution phase where the operations of both opposing forces are carried out simultaneously. The game(s) have very realistic physics and treat the terrain very realistically as well. If you conceal a squad in a pine forest, that squad is not only going to be hard to see, they'll be hard to hit as well...

They do have some RTS titles as well, though I haven't tried those to date. This is one of those "indi" developers that really is worth your patronage, in my opinion.

[Scotty]

RTS Recommendations:

StarCraft (you should already have this)
WarCraft 3 (less likely to have)
Command and Conquer Red Alert 2 (not 3)
Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War and expansions
Just about any of the Total War games

and if you prefer the unit size and environments of the Total War games, but not the historical setting, or like Warhammer, just not on such a small scale (or you just don't like 40K), then:
Warhammer:  Mark of Chaos.

[Mongoose]

I'll also toss on Age of Empires 2 (and probably 3, but I don't have any experience with it) and Age of Mythology.  Ensemble Studios were right at the top of the game RTS-wise.

[Stormkeeper]

Scotty, I think you're selling RA3 a bit short. It's not a bad game, especially with a mate to back you up.

[General Battuta]

C&C3 was a lot better. RA3 was kind of a letdown.

There's no question RA2 was better, I think.

[Stormkeeper]

Yeah, it was, I'll admit that. But it's not a terrible game. It's just not good as its predecessor. But like I said, co-op is incredibly fun, especially with a competent co-commander.

[stuart133]

Ahh, classic RA. That has got to be one of the best games I have ever played.

Also Dawn of War: Dark Crusade IMO is the best Dawn of War game.

[CP5670]

RA1 is still a lot of fun in skirmish, although the multiplayer can be unstable on modern systems. I typically use my future wars mod for it.

Yeah, it was, I'll admit that. But it's not a terrible game. It's just not good as its predecessor. But like I said, co-op is incredibly fun, especially with a competent co-commander.

I tried some missions in co-op once, but very few of them are challenging enough to actually justify a second person. The skirmish AI is also weaker than that of C&C3, and is more like RA1's AI. I had a lot more fun in C&C3 co-op and AoD games than with RA3's campaign.

[SpardaSon21]

If you have/get Dark Crusade, check out the Firestorm over Kaurava mod.  Yes, I know its named after the setting in Soulstorm, but that's only because they are preparing to move to SS after the patch for the final DC version.  Why should you get it?  New units, new models, new textures, and a total closer-to-codex rebalance of the game.  Plus it even adds Black Templars in all their fanatical, crusading glory.  And the IG use their new 5th Edition rules, making them extremely powerful, with Basilisks that can shoot across a four-player map as well as nine Leman Russ tanks at once, including the Eradicator, Punisher, and Demolisher.  Bow before the Hammer of the Emperor Chaos! with its new Marked armies, cult troops, and expanded selection of daemons.

[NGTM-1R]

So basically, the IG will **** you up with their new Basilisks, and everyone else is screwed.

There's a reason they didn't go with the codex rules dammit.

[SpardaSon21]

Screwed?  Not really.  Bassies are hardcapped at three and are really inaccurate when using indirect fire, plus there is talk of making them a relic unit in the next patch.  Did I mention they are expensive and fire slowly?  They also have crap HP and armor and can't defend themselves against close-in units.  Land Speeders with multi-meltas or assault cannons, Vypers with scatter lasers, Necron Destroyers, and even a squad of Tau Tetras can all counter Basilisks.  And there are options such as power fist Vanguard Assault Squads and Raptors with power fist aspiring champions if you are a fan of infantry.  Basically the IG player can turtle his forces to protect his Basilisks, leaving him without much map control, or he can attack and leave his Basilisks vulnerable to a sneak attack.  Plus any unit with an invulnerable save can take a few shots from a Basilisk cannon due to how HP works in FoK.

And IG are powerful yes.  Blame GW for making an IG codex that is actually good.  Space Marines on the other hand suck early-game because they use the 5th Edition codex mandating a full squad before a heavy weapon can be taken.  Good news is once you get to late-game you can spam lascannons and powerfists and steamroller anyone thanks to your 2/3 damage reduction for your basic infantry and near-invincible codex-y Land Raiders that can't be touched by anything short of a missile launcher.  Plus Vanguard Veterans can get storm shields and thunder hammers, making them almost as nasty as Terminators and twice as fast.  And there are actual Terminators which have a 5/6 damage reduction thanks to their 2+ save, making them pretty much invincible, and they all have powerfists for anti-everything rape.

Every race has an area in which it excels.  Do you want me to say what they are for all of the races?

[Scotty]

Scotty, I think you're selling RA3 a bit short. It's not a bad game, especially with a mate to back you up.

I agree it's not a bad game, I just don't recommend buying it when you could get RA 2 instead for cheap.

[NGTM-1R]

Plus any unit with an invulnerable save can take a few shots from a Basilisk cannon due to how HP works in FoK.

There's a reason they didn't go with the codex rules dammit.

I'm not hearing anything to disagree with my assessment, particular if the Basilisk still has that super shot.

[SpardaSon21]

Nope, it doesn't have that super shot anymore.  Remember, this is a closer-to-codex mod, so all non-codex abilities got axed.  What did happen is that the Basilisk now fires the same shell as the Leman Russ, just at a longer range, just like in the codex.  However, the Basilisk is capped at three, may become a relic unit, and is extremely expensive at about 400 or so requisition, which is a lot since the requisition researches were removed from Listening Posts.  And Basilisks are Tier 3 now.  So overpowered to the point of game-breaking?  No, not really especially since every other race gets units of pure cheese.

What cheese is their for the races now?  Tau Hammerheads now have an anti-everything railgun that rapes everything from infantry to vehicles at a range of 108.  Broadsides rape vehicles and heavy infantry at a range of 108 and can fire on the move now with an upgrade.  Chaos gets near-invincible anti-everything Obliterators that can fire all their weapons at the same time now, and are no longer hardcapped to one squad, and they can also get three squads of Chaos Terminators.  There's also the Defiler which is a cross between a Dreadnought and a Leman Russ now.  Space Marines get three squads of Terminators, as well as four Land Raiders, and all those are freaking tough.  The SM also have access to an all-powerful Orbital Bombardment that can destroy damn near an entire base in one activation.  Necrons are made more codex, and are the only race capable of taking out enemy bases in T1 thanks to their codex-y anti-everything guns.  Eldar have access to the Scorpion super-heavy tank which can take more damage than the Baneblade, as well as a superpowered Avatar of Khaine.  The Wraithlord also got a buff in that it ignores infantry armor and rolls 10+2d6 for vehicle armor penetration, and is damn near invincible thanks to the fact its a Monstrous Creature and has three wounds.  Orks have access to Lootas, which are relatively cheap and are maxed at 12 per mob.  Lootas all happen to have autocannons, so you end up with twelve autocannons all firing at the same target, and in FoK they will rape anything short of a Land Raider, even a Leman Russ.  Ork Killa Kanz now come in squads of three, and sync-kill every 5 seconds or so.  Orks also have access to Deff Dreads which will rape any other walker vehicle thanks to its pair of close-combat weapons.  And the Black Templars, a Chapter of SM that don't follow the Codex Astartes, get three squads of Terminators, as well as up to ten Land Raiders.

So yes, the Basilisk is cheese.  However every other race has its share of cheese so it all balances out in the end.

[mxlm]

Also Dawn of War: Dark Crusade IMO is the best Dawn of War game.

Do people still play that online? Last time I had it installed (a while ago), the pickings were pretty slim. Still true?

Actually, let's revise the question to: do any of DoW's versions have a decent multiplayer base these days?

I'm tempted to reinstall, but don't want to deal with the hassle if they don't (ask Galemp, my DVD drive is about *this* close to failing altogether).

[stuart133]

Talking of 40K, I was thinking of getting into it, any recommendations on armies, first purchases. BTW I have played a lot of figure games, and am a fairly experienced war gamer in general.

Also if anyone does play and attends any clubs based in London that would be helpful too.

Back on topic: How about Hostile waters. That is a fun game, with a really nice command feel, as well as the ability to jump into the combat.

[Thaeris]

Well, if you go 40K, be prepared to spend ludicrous amounts of money. The only stuff I ever bought was the rulebook and a set of Space Marine assault troops (you know, with the jump packs?). I also got a detail brush and maybe some other little things with the purchase, but I think I spent close to or over $70 USD on that alone! I think if I ever getting around to putting those guys together, I'll make them Dark Angels. The Dark Angels are pretty darn cool... If I had to start over and choose a different army, I'd probably go with Eldar (space elves!).

If you want to browse through the Warhammer universe, check the Wiki:

http://www.lexicanum.com/

Wikipedia is also surprisingly good at getting the general idea of many Warhammer elements across as well...