Author Topic: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine  (Read 9451 times)

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Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Quite simply, Ghostavo, optimization is important, because its the engine that matters the most for graphics and the like, not the texture sizes. Optimization is becoming more and more neccessary, regardless.
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Offline CP5670

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
I can't tell what exactly you guys are arguing about. :p Engine optimization is obviously important, but UE3 is quite well optimized. As I said earlier, games like UT3 run well on a range of hardware.

And large textures make a huge difference to image quality. However, there are very few modern games that actually use large textures, as the consoles can't handle them. The best use of consistently large textures I've seen is in the original UT with the S3TC packages (the textures are actually for Unreal 1, which can be played through UT). Some of them go up to 4096x4096 and look fantastic, especially combined with the engine's multi-layered detail texturing.

 

Offline MR_T3D

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
I can't tell what exactly you guys are arguing about. :p Engine optimization is obviously important, but UE3 is quite well optimized. As I said earlier, games like UT3 run well on a range of hardware.

And large textures make a huge difference to image quality. However, there are very few modern games that actually use large textures, as the consoles can't handle them. The best use of consistently large textures I've seen is in the original UT with the S3TC packages (the textures are actually for Unreal 1, which can be played through UT). Some of them go up to 4096x4096 and look fantastic, especially combined with the engine's multi-layered detail texturing.
the engine's texturing often looks not that nice, especially scaled back, IMO, but that's mainly from playing UT3, AA3 on it.

 

Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
I can't tell what exactly you guys are arguing about. :p Engine optimization is obviously important, but UE3 is quite well optimized. As I said earlier, games like UT3 run well on a range of hardware.
As far as I could tell, it was about the importance of optimization in relation to the increasing power of processors as well as the potential to reverse engineer the UE for FSO
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Offline chief1983

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Showed t his to my buddy Dan today (huge UE fan), he had a comment or two:

Quote
[10:54] Dan: Also, graphics engines impose a given look and feel on all the games that they render based on how they do things. Unreal is powerful, but its still based around a whole bunch of largely fixed-function ideas, like skyboxes.
[10:54] Dan: WRONG
[10:54] Dan: ue3 does not do skyboxes
[10:54] Dan: it also, has subtractive/additive map modes
[10:55] Dan: which was a new feature to ue
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Offline BloodEagle

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Is... is he arguing with himself?  :nervous:

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
That first line was a quote from earlier.
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Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
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iamzack:  lays

 

Offline blackhole

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Showed t his to my buddy Dan today (huge UE fan), he had a comment or two:

Quote
[10:54] Dan: Also, graphics engines impose a given look and feel on all the games that they render based on how they do things. Unreal is powerful, but its still based around a whole bunch of largely fixed-function ideas, like skyboxes.
[10:54] Dan: WRONG
[10:54] Dan: ue3 does not do skyboxes
[10:54] Dan: it also, has subtractive/additive map modes
[10:55] Dan: which was a new feature to ue

Strange, I could've sworn UE3 used skyboxes for some reason - but I looked it up, and it uses static mesh skyboxes.

Of course, even with those, it still doesn't invalidate my point :P

Also, your buddy is going to hate me in about 3 years.

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
hmmm, random tangent here what about the HL1 engine?
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Offline chief1983

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
You mean the highly modified hacked up Quake 1 engine with some fixes backported from Q2, otherwise known as GoldSrc?  I was already saying, the original Unreal engine blew it out of the water in terms of appearance, and performance in Glide was amazing compared to HL1 in OpenGL.
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Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
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redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
I'm not sure what the pros and cons of the different types of skyboxes are, but UT3 has a couple of unusual skyboxes, especially in the Necris themed maps. Even the first Unreal engine could do some interesting things with the skybox. One example is the Versalife level in Deus Ex, where the skybox contains NPCs walking around outside.

Quote
the engine's texturing often looks not that nice, especially scaled back, IMO, but that's mainly from playing UT3, AA3 on it.

UT3's textures are generally very good and better than most games out there, but are not entirely consistent. A lot of other games built on the UE3 engine have crappy textures though. Bioshock is an especially big example of this.

 

Offline blackhole

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Actually there's one very prominent reason why unreal games have an "unreal" feel to them, and that is because game developers abuse the everloving crap out of that stupid bloom shader.

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
That and weapons defy all rules of realism. :P

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
As I've said before, bloom, the new lensflare. :p

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Quote
Actually there's one very prominent reason why unreal games have an "unreal" feel to them, and that is because game developers abuse the everloving crap out of that stupid bloom shader.

This is true. The R6 Vegas games come to mind, and Mass Effect in some places was pretty bad too. It's an issue in many modern games in general.

UT3's bloom is more reasonable. A lot of maps have a kind of "foggy" effect that looks strange, but the level of bloom is generally where it should be.

Quote
That and weapons defy all rules of realism.

That may be a good thing, depending on what the game is supposed to be like. I certainly wouldn't want realistic weapons in UT3. :p

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Any Unreal game as blackhole said. :D

Plus UT3 has an adjustable bloom setting.

 

Offline blackhole

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
UT3's bloom is more reasonable. A lot of maps have a kind of "foggy" effect that looks strange, but the level of bloom is generally where it should be.

The level of bloom will be where it should be when it's turned off.

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
UT3's bloom is more reasonable. A lot of maps have a kind of "foggy" effect that looks strange, but the level of bloom is generally where it should be.

The level of bloom will be where it should be when it's turned off.

I like to have some amount of bloom, mainly around light sources. We don't yet have HDR monitors that can show lights properly, and bloom is a reasonable substitute for giving the impression of brightness.

 

Offline blackhole

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
UT3's bloom is more reasonable. A lot of maps have a kind of "foggy" effect that looks strange, but the level of bloom is generally where it should be.

The level of bloom will be where it should be when it's turned off.

I like to have some amount of bloom, mainly around light sources. We don't yet have HDR monitors that can show lights properly, and bloom is a reasonable substitute for giving the impression of brightness.

Wrong.

I have done studies of this in my own personal time, and bloom occurs naturally only in certain circumstances where there is a large contrast between the current ambient light in a given room and the light source in question. This means that it only occurs indoors and at night under extreme contrast differences. If you are outside in the day, you should never, ever, ever see any bloom of any sort because there is not enough contrast. You are correct that it should appear around light sources, but it really should only appear around light sources and/or extremely reflective surfaces. It is also a LOT more subtle in real-life.

When you look at the sun or another bright object and it appears "very bright", the reason for this is not because of bloom, but rather of a phenomenon that I've called "light-bleeding." The easiest way to observe this is to look at the sun through a bunch of trees. If you compare the holes in the trees to the holes in a group of similar trees in the opposite direction, the amount of perceived light that's filtering through the sun-facing ones is larger then the hole should actually permit. This has to do with light scattering and a bunch of other techno-crap, but the point being that if something is very, very bright, in a 3D renderer's point of view it should "bleed through" the nearest opaque pixels. (this effect can be achieved via the manipulation of HDR textures in a single pass, without any sort of filtering). This is what gives us the perception that something is very very bright, not bloom. Bloom is simply an artifact of imperfections in our eyes (the drier your eyes are, the less bloom you'll see).

This is even further confounded by the fact that games aren't even using HDR like they should be using it. Real HDR photography is the art of taking pictures of a scene with a lot of contrast and allowing the darker areas to show up against the brighter ones, which mimics our own brain's filtering process IRL. Games use this "HDR" simply to move the average light value up or down, without ever actually increasing the range of lighting that the monitor is representing. This could be fixed with a GPU-based HDR spectrum analysis.

Games will be able to say they're using HDR rendering when they look like this:



 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
I think bloom can look pretty when employed artistically.