Author Topic: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine  (Read 9455 times)

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Offline blackhole

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Nah man, you won't need that.  As it is, most LCDs can't properly display #000000 and #FFFFFF at the same time.  The backlight washes out the #000000 and turns it to a grey, or you turn the brightness down and end up with a dim #FFFFFF.  An OLED will be able to do that properly though, and show you the full range, since it has no backlight.

So why doesn't some hardware genius hurry up and invent cheap OLEDs? :P

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Bigger problem, last I heard, was still the lifespan of the OLEDs themselves.  They're not quite up to snuff yet I think.  But they've made a lot of breakthroughs in this area in the last year or so.
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Offline CP5670

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
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I think there's a distinction between acceptable and right. While I concur that some games have had acceptable amounts of bloom, I would argue that vanishingly few, if any, have actually gotten it right, mostly because getting bloom "right" is extremely difficult and requires deep HDR analysis.

It depends on your basis for comparison. I'm comparing them to old games that did not have any bloom at all, not high quality renders.

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Bigger problem, last I heard, was still the lifespan of the OLEDs themselves.  They're not quite up to snuff yet I think.  But they've made a lot of breakthroughs in this area in the last year or so.

The problem with the blue lifespan was apparently solved quite some time ago, at least on lab prototypes. Unfortunately, it seems like we're not going to see any mass-produced models until 2012. :blah:

OLEDs will have numerous other advantages over LCDs, even if we don't see them support any HDR color modes.

 

Offline blackhole

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
It depends on your basis for comparison. I'm comparing them to old games that did not have any bloom at all, not high quality renders.

I would argue that the only thing we should be comparing them to is Real Lifetm (or a hyper-realistic render that is somehow better then reality).

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
You would find just about all game graphics disappointing, in that case. :p

Also, it's not always desirable for game graphics to emulate real life. It depends on the nature of the game. For a game like UT3 for example, I would rather see something creative instead of having graphics that look exactly like real life.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Exactly, which is why Valve chose to go the way they did with Team Fortress 2, among various other examples.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 03:58:27 pm by Mongoose »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
I totally concur. I'd rather have pretty than realistic.

 

Offline blackhole

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Also, it's not always desirable for game graphics to emulate real life. It depends on the nature of the game. For a game like UT3 for example, I would rather see something creative instead of having graphics that look exactly like real life.

That wasn't my point. My point is that for saying who has implemented what effect in the correct manner, you would want to compare it to real life. Nowhere did I say or imply that game graphics should mimic real life. However, in that regard, I do want to point out that if your going to have something look pretty, it takes almost as much graphics processing power as to make something look realistic, so if you make a graphics engine capable of rendering something that looks photorealistic, you will therefore also be able to so artistic things like TF2 and Okami.

 

Offline Fury

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Wtf is with this topic, this really didn't go down the way I expected it to. :sigh: Pointless topic is pointless.

 

Offline blackhole

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Wtf is with this topic, this really didn't go down the way I expected it to. :sigh: Pointless topic is pointless.

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Offline Ghostavo

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
 :lol:

While I'm at it.

However, in that regard, I do want to point out that if your going to have something look pretty, it takes almost as much graphics processing power as to make something look realistic, so if you make a graphics engine capable of rendering something that looks photorealistic, you will therefore also be able to so artistic things like TF2 and Okami.

What happens when the order is reversed, and to make photorealistic renders takes less effort than making what you want? Meaning, the lighting effects we have in real life become not a superset of those we use in gaming but a subset.  :D
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Offline CP5670

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Quote
That wasn't my point. My point is that for saying who has implemented what effect in the correct manner, you would want to compare it to real life. Nowhere did I say or imply that game graphics should mimic real life. However, in that regard, I do want to point out that if your going to have something look pretty, it takes almost as much graphics processing power as to make something look realistic, so if you make a graphics engine capable of rendering something that looks photorealistic, you will therefore also be able to so artistic things like TF2 and Okami.

In terms of the GPU power needed, sure, but when it comes to specific effects like bloom, they don't necessarily go hand-in-hand anymore.

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Wtf is with this topic, this really didn't go down the way I expected it to.  Pointless topic is pointless.

We're having a great time here. :D

 

Offline blackhole

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
In terms of the GPU power needed, sure, but when it comes to specific effects like bloom, they don't necessarily go hand-in-hand anymore.

Ah, but all effects are by definition related to each other and therefore an optimized graphics engine that is good at one will (usually) be good at all of them. That is to say, if you build the necessary optimized framework to handle an arbitrary shader (which you'll have to do to get a photorealistic render), then you'll automatically improve the preformance of completely unrelated shaders. This is excluding the always-existent possibility of lazy programming and hard-coded shader implementations.

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What happens when the order is reversed, and to make photorealistic renders takes less effort than making what you want? Meaning, the lighting effects we have in real life become not a superset of those we use in gaming but a subset.

I think for a lot of artistic effects, that is already true, especially for things like edge shading and whatnot. This usually goes away in combination with the lower texture resolution and other optimizations, though.

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Ah, but all effects are by definition related to each other and therefore an optimized graphics engine that is good at one will (usually) be good at all of them. That is to say, if you build the necessary optimized framework to handle an arbitrary shader (which you'll have to do to get a photorealistic render), then you'll automatically improve the preformance of completely unrelated shaders. This is excluding the always-existent possibility of lazy programming and hard-coded shader implementations.

I'm simply referring to the intensity of a given effect, not the engine's support or lack of support for it. It would typically just be controlled by various parameters. My main point is that the "right" amount of bloom for a given game will depend on the kind of game it is.

 

Offline blackhole

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Re: Epic Releases Free Version of Unreal Engine
Ah, but all effects are by definition related to each other and therefore an optimized graphics engine that is good at one will (usually) be good at all of them. That is to say, if you build the necessary optimized framework to handle an arbitrary shader (which you'll have to do to get a photorealistic render), then you'll automatically improve the preformance of completely unrelated shaders. This is excluding the always-existent possibility of lazy programming and hard-coded shader implementations.

I'm simply referring to the intensity of a given effect, not the engine's support or lack of support for it. It would typically just be controlled by various parameters. My main point is that the "right" amount of bloom for a given game will depend on the kind of game it is.

True.  This, however, encroaches on the territory of when artistic expression starts to interfere with gameplay.