[Uchuujinsan]

"I kept going faster and faster," James said. "And all of a sudden… my foot was pressing on the brake super, super hard and I wasn't slowing down."

Hm, remembers me of an incident of a ship I happened to be on.
It crashed into the stone pier with full power, because the skipper mistook full power forward with full power backwards :>
Nothing happened except a broken anchor though... (been only a 20m ship)
Seriously, a claim "I did press the brake" isn't very convincing - such mistakes happen all the time. And you maybe can't even recall, because you don't order your feet to press the left/right one, you order your feet to press the one that brakes. And you remember you ordered your feet to brake, so apparently the car accelarated even though you hit the brakes.

On a side note, I can't understand why anyone would like to use an automatic gear box, but.. :>

[Mongoose]

On a side note, I can't understand why anyone would like to use an automatic gear box, but.. :>

Because we want to be able to drive and scratch our nuts at the same time?

[IceFire]

"I kept going faster and faster," James said. "And all of a sudden… my foot was pressing on the brake super, super hard and I wasn't slowing down."

Hm, remembers me of an incident of a ship I happened to be on.
It crashed into the stone pier with full power, because the skipper mistook full power forward with full power backwards :>
Nothing happened except a broken anchor though... (been only a 20m ship)
Seriously, a claim "I did press the brake" isn't very convincing - such mistakes happen all the time. And you maybe can't even recall, because you don't order your feet to press the left/right one, you order your feet to press the one that brakes. And you remember you ordered your feet to brake, so apparently the car accelarated even though you hit the brakes.

On a side note, I can't understand why anyone would like to use an automatic gear box, but.. :>

I don't know about you but the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal have different shapes and definitely feel different in operation.  Even if the driver did panic.... in at least a couple of the cases where the vehicle allegedly went out of control the person in control had several minutes to try and stop the vehicle (in the one case as it was speeding down the interstate).  I don't think they are misplacing the pedals... it could be something lodged physically or it could be faulty software or goodness knows what.  In most of these cases they can't turn off the car either because its a push button start system.

My car is a Toyota so I'm a bit concerned but its only happened to a small percentage so the chances of it being my car are lower.... and I think the first thing I'd do is take out the key from the ignition.  Next step slam on the brakes and the E brake...

[Uchuujinsan]

I don't know about you but the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal have different shapes and definitely feel different in operation.  Even if the driver did panic.... in at least a couple of the cases where the vehicle allegedly went out of control the person in control had several minutes to try and stop the vehicle (in the one case as it was speeding down the interstate).  I don't think they are misplacing the pedals... it could be something lodged physically or it could be faulty software or goodness knows what.  In most of these cases they can't turn off the car either because its a push button start system.

My car is a Toyota so I'm a bit concerned but its only happened to a small percentage so the chances of it being my car are lower.... and I think the first thing I'd do is take out the key from the ignition.  Next step slam on the brakes and the E brake...

The different shape doesn't get noticed, because it's an unconscious mistake - sure, if you are actively trying to feel the big one, so you can brake you will realize if you got the wrong one - but if you just think "brake", and let your training handle the rest, it can happen.
You easily learn to think of what you want to achieve, not how exactly you have to move the leg. You think "car, turn left", and let your muscles and training handle the rest - you turn the wheel in the correct direction without even thinking consciously about it.

On the other hand, that's only a reasonable explanation if you have at most 5-10 seconds to react - any longer and you quite certainly will check if your legs are doing what they are supposed to do, so if that has gone on for minutes, I have to admit that can't be an explanation.
However, it probably is the reason for at least some of those stories. Simply because if someone told me that no one ever had problems with a car speeding up even if he wanted it to slow down, I wouldn't believe him - just because those mistakes happen.

However, if you can go on for minutes without being able to stop the car, the problem imho is not  a "simple" electronical one, it's a problem of the underlying design. Maybe I need to read all of the posted links and not only an extract, but I would be curious to see a report of how all possible means (except an inentional crash) to stop the car have failed - and the response to that.

Because we want to be able to drive and scratch our nuts at the same time?

I can do that without automatic, one hand for the nuts, one for the steering wheel and the gear shift

[Mongoose]

I can't see most drivers accidentally stepping on the accelerator instead of the brake, at least not if they've had a few years' worth of experience.  I recently came extremely close to hitting a deer on a four-lane roadway (in fact, I might have actually brushed up against the damn thing) that decided to try cutting across the road all of a sudden, and I unconsciously slammed on the brake before my brain even had the chance to register "Deer!"  Provided you've driven enough to develop muscle memory, I'd think your foot knows where it needs to go.

Edit:  Dammit, beaten again.

Because we want to be able to drive and scratch our nuts at the same time?

I can do that without automatic, one hand for the nuts, one for the steering wheel and the gear shift

Now that's just unsafe.

But seriously, unless I was buying a powerful car that absolutely warranted a manual, I'd go automatic every time for the simple reason that it requires less work.  Plus, I've managed to accidentally downshift and blow the engine in every racing game with manual shifting I've ever played, so I'd rather not put that to the test in an actual vehicle.

[Mika]

Former incidents of uncontrolled acceleration of the car have mostly turned out to be driver mistakes, at least in the case of the Audi. Similar cases (does not depend on the car brand) here nowadays have turned out to be driver mistakes. I.e. letting the floor mat be loose, or wearing extra wide shoes. Or using space reserved for driver's feet as extra storage space. Though I have read about one incident where there really was a mechanical obstruction within the movement zone of the pedal. Further, I find it odd that similar cars in Europe have not caused such problems.

I think the correct procedure to slow down the car is to switch to neutral position, hitting brakes (not using maximum force immediately is a mistake), and then shutting down the engine when driver sees the situation manageable. Yes the engine will likely over-rev, but it has limiters that should last sufficient amount of time. If it is absolutely necessary to shut down the engine, do NOT take away the ignition key. Doing this will cause steering lock to activate. Turning off the electricity will cause these things to happen: power steering is gone (this should still be manageable) and power braking is gone - this is lot more serious as driver must really jump on the pedal and push as hard as physically possible. It is my understanding that not all cars allow that many attempts for braking after electricity is lost.

Mika

[Herra Tohtori]

After power brakes are gone, there's still some stored pressure differential in the vacuum servo, so it does still function for a very limited time after the power for vacuum pump is lost. Aside from that, hydraulic brakes can be pumped in absence of the vacuum servo, and technically they should offer the same braking power, it just takes a bit longer to build up the pressure just by pumping the pedal, compared to what the vacuum servo does almost instantaneously.

Bigger issues are involved if the car has ABS brakes, in which case you just need to step on the brake hard, keep it down there and just hope that the car will stop in time. At least based on my current knowledge. Of course, majority of modern automobiles does have ABS brakes...

Btw, regarding manual vs automatic gears... downshifting accidentally is totally not a problem, since you tend to notice it quite immediately and using the clutch becomes quite natural, so you just re-apply clutch and put on the correct gear. I've had instances where I accidentally put on third gear instead of fifth while accelerating, but I've never had the engine hit the rev limiter.

[Mika]

I've had instances where I accidentally put on third gear instead of fifth while accelerating, but I've never had the engine hit the rev limiter.

Is that really a mistake? 

My parents shifted to an automatic some time ago. Driving it first time ensured hilarity, as all the cars I drove before were manuals. I had some problems to get decent acceleration of that thing, hitting max throttle was not enough. I had to release the damn pedal and push it way down again to tell the system I wanted to switch to power mode. What followed after was something I hadn't witnessed before, like the RPM needle moving to the red area - stopping somewhere around 7400 RPM, but it really did provide extra power.

And I thought 5500 RPMs with manual gear three was enough before in those cases...

[Herra Tohtori]

I've had instances where I accidentally put on third gear instead of fifth while accelerating, but I've never had the engine hit the rev limiter.

Is that really a mistake?  

Yes, if you're already on the fourth gear.

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[Uchuujinsan]

But seriously, unless I was buying a powerful car that absolutely warranted a manual, I'd go automatic every time for the simple reason that it requires less work.  Plus, I've managed to accidentally downshift and blow the engine in every racing game with manual shifting I've ever played, so I'd rather not put that to the test in an actual vehicle.

Well, the less work argument certainly is true.
But I can't imagine you can break the engine that way in a normal car, it happened to me to shift into second from fifth (instead of fourth) while going around 100km/h (maybe 60mph), and nothing really happened. Well, ok, the engine got a little loud cause it had so many rpm, but no damage.

What I completely dislike about automatic is, that your control over the car get's limited - I can foresee what's going to happen, if I want to accelerate fast cause I'm entering the interstate with 50km/h or are driving on a larger street in the city, and want to save fuel with 50km/h. One requires third gear for sudden and strong acceleration, the other one fifth to save fuel. An automatic system has absolutely no way to know beforehand what I'm doing, it doesn't see where I'm driving, and so cannot prepare.

Hm... should I stop derailing?

[IceFire]

I've got an automatic with sport shifter on my Corolla XRS.  I use it more than I thought I would... especially when passing but on other occasions as well.  Its not true automatic but its not bad...  Plus I think the future will be in DSG transmissions.  Manual shifts when you want them and automatic when you want it and pretty much the full advantages of both.  VW is already going that way and Ford is about to from the sounds of it.

Back on topic I wonder what the next steps will be.  Lots of interesting things happening around this issue.  Toyota is in the automotive press so much recently so this issue and others are all trying to get attention.

[Mongoose]

The downshifting argument was a bit of a joke, since that usually consisted of me intentionally going from fourth to first in NASCAR Racing 2 (good ol' Papyrus) just to hear the engine blow. But I'll stick with the less-work argument.  As far as needing an extra burst of power to pass someone goes, depressing the accelerator a substantial amount generally forces a downshift in every automatic I've ever driven.

[Mika]

Yes, if you're already on the fourth gear.

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Oh, I see, you are talking about Speeding Up the car rather than Accelerating^TM the car.

I tend to skip the fourth gear altogether.

[Roanoke]

I've got an automatic with sport shifter on my Corolla XRS.  I use it more than I thought I would... especially when passing but on other occasions as well.  Its not true automatic but its not bad...  Plus I think the future will be in DSG transmissions.  Manual shifts when you want them and automatic when you want it and pretty much the full advantages of both.  VW is already going that way and Ford is about to from the sounds of it.

Back on topic I wonder what the next steps will be.  Lots of interesting things happening around this issue.  Toyota is in the automotive press so much recently so this issue and others are all trying to get attention.

I've driven a few customer cars with auto and manual shift paddles. TBH they seemed kinda poinltess and I just let the auto do the work.

[IceFire]

I've got an automatic with sport shifter on my Corolla XRS.  I use it more than I thought I would... especially when passing but on other occasions as well.  Its not true automatic but its not bad...  Plus I think the future will be in DSG transmissions.  Manual shifts when you want them and automatic when you want it and pretty much the full advantages of both.  VW is already going that way and Ford is about to from the sounds of it.

Back on topic I wonder what the next steps will be.  Lots of interesting things happening around this issue.  Toyota is in the automotive press so much recently so this issue and others are all trying to get attention.

I've driven a few customer cars with auto and manual shift paddles. TBH they seemed kinda poinltess and I just let the auto do the work.

Useful if you end up on hills a lot or need to pass a transport truck or some crazy person driving 60 kph in a 80 kph zone.  Plus its sort of fun to tap over to Sport, tap down a couple of times to put the engine in a good spot and then hit the accelerator.  Plus its great for impressing the other folks in the car

[Dark RevenantX]

A highway patrol officer around where I live died because of this bull****.  Toyota needs to get their heads out of their asses.

[MP-Ryan]

I won't buy vehicles with automatic transmissions if I can avoid it.  But then again, I come from the land of real mountain roads, so it's kind of necessary if you don't want to go through brake pads on a yearly basis.

Also, manuals are much more fun and satisfying to drive.

[IceFire]

But they are a real pain when you run into constant stop and go traffic like I do on a semi-regular basis.

[Liberator]

Besides 90% of the population here in the states doesn't know how to drive around one.  Particularly one that is loaded to capacity.  Was hauling a load of corn to the port head and this crazy ***** blazed up behind me as I was coming out of a stop blaring on her horn cause I wasn't accelerating fast enough to suit her, I'd like to see her try and drive a Chevy 3500 with 10000 lbs of grain on the back.

[MR_T3D]

  there's a toyota that can go over 120mph made after 2002?
seriously?
Well, its nice to see that there are others whom also know that TOYotas..
..suck. quite simply put i wish i could muster up some more reasoning other than that they discontinue any sort of 'cool' car (supra) in favor of the boring and lame in scary numbers.