[MatthTheGeek]

Actually, in order to integrate it better within original missions and to minimize the customization of maps adaptation to new AIs, I just modified the original AI classes (Coward, Lieutenant, ...) based on your modified classes, and just added a Turreted class which is a non-modified version of Captain (in the same position in the tbl as Captain was) for all ships that use turrets. Then I changed the default AI of all ships that use turrets to Turreted (including bombers), so they will keep the retail behavior instead of firing at unusual rates. Then, the only thing to change in missions is making sure that bombers use new AI as pilots and Turreted AI for their turrets, and that capital ships' turrets haven't been switched to anything else than Turreted.

My changes are only for integration purpose, the only change in the values I made was to scale the classes properly (Rookie -> Lieutenant, Veteran -> Captain, Elite -> Colonel, and properly scaled values for Major between Veteran and Elite and General above Elite)

[Fury]

I have updated link in the first post to point to v3 of the AI. This includes the turrets-obt.tbm I attached to a post earlier, it is still completely optional. V3 fixes a minor bug in Wingmen classes $Get Away Chance. V3 alters $AI Turn Time Scale, by default FS2 has severe penalties to how quickly hostile ships can turn. This disables these penalties on all but very easy and easy difficulty levels, but are reduced from defaults even at those difficulties. What you will see is much sharper and faster turns by hostile fighters and bombers.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Actually, in order to integrate it better within original missions and to minimize the customization of maps adaptation to new AIs, I just modified the original AI classes (Coward, Lieutenant, ...) based on your modified classes, and just added a Turreted class which is a non-modified version of Captain (in the same position in the tbl as Captain was) for all ships that use turrets. Then I changed the default AI of all ships that use turrets to Turreted (including bombers), so they will keep the retail behavior instead of firing at unusual rates. Then, the only thing to change in missions is making sure that bombers use new AI as pilots and Turreted AI for their turrets, and that capital ships' turrets haven't been switched to anything else than Turreted.

My changes are only for integration purpose, the only change in the values I made was to scale the classes properly (Rookie -> Lieutenant, Veteran -> Captain, Elite -> Colonel, and properly scaled values for Major between Veteran and Elite and General above Elite)

You do realize by inserting a new entry where captain was that everything after captain is changed in behavior.  The position in the table matters for calculating things.  So if your old captain class is now one slot down they will do things like fire more missiles as well as other things. 

[Fury]

Unless he used $Autoscale by AI Class Index: NO
But if that is used, the AI entries no longer behave like in retail anyway. So indeed, changing order of retail AI classes should not be done.

[MatthTheGeek]

Unless he used $Autoscale by AI Class Index: NO
But if that is used, the AI entries no longer behave like in retail anyway. So indeed, changing order of AI retail classes should not be done.

I turned autoscale off for all classes excepted Turreted indeed. Everything seems to work pretty fine with my modified version, and it saves a lot of time when adapting missions to the new AIs.

[Fury]

Unfortunately that means retail AI classes no longer behave like they are supposed to. The flag turns off hard-coded class index multipliers, which quite likely can throw mission balance out of the window. But so does using my tweaks on retail classes anyhow.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Well until the bugs are fixed not even that flag matters for all cases. 

[MatthTheGeek]

I know retail AI classes doesn't behave like they used to be, but that's how I want it to be, playing retail missions with enhanced AI. Don't worry, I didn't drop them in the data folder or whatever, I created a new mod just for the new AI and adapted missions. That's the best way to test the AI in every situation I think, and I went through most of FS2 campaign without major problems (excepted the first ones that are a little harder, when everyone has only heat-seeking and dumbfire). The fact that your wingmen are enhanced too plays a lot in maintaining balance.

And btw, I really love the new behavior with turn rates fixed. Whoever doubted that the Loki is the Dragon of GTVA should play against them in Hard with the new AI

[Reprobator]

I've played a bit with your ai fury, and i have to say that it's very, very nice.
I've tweak it a bit to fit Ep, i'm rather happy with the close dogfight behavior, but i've not understood why, ai seems unable to shoot any missile now.

I've change the line to this :
$Chance AI Has to Fire Missiles at Player: 5, 5, 6, 6, 6
To ensure it will shoot at me but it doesn't.
Maybe i should take a look on the missile them self, i will try to increase their effectivness distance and decrease lock time to see , if they just can't manage to acquire a lock.

I ve made a 1 sec long lock missile for a 10 000 effective range, it still doesn't fire anything.
So i'll have to look elsewhere

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Are you playing on very easy?  AI will almost never fire a missile on very easy. 

[Reprobator]

No, on medium, and i"ve try to figure out why, and untill now i could not.


I've just try on insane and it shot at me.
hmmm i'll take a look after a good night of sleep.

[QuantumDelta]

If you could figure out exactly which table entries are causing the more "retail-like" AI behavior, it could make it a lot easier to track down and debug them.

Fury be the dude turning the dials, the immediate built(I think?) from our internal testing session was probably pretty close to what retail was.

[Reprobator]

Tryed with fury original's table, it behave the same, they only shot missile on insane, tryed with retail ai et ai_profile, behave the same too,
I guess problem are somewhere else.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Just did a playthrough of this AI on Very Easy.

Right, here are things I've noted.

- The AI DOES fire secondaries (at least, for seekers they do), and they do it with the gayest of abandon:



- The AI shunts power between shield quadrants, but they only seem to concentrate on one quadrant ONLY, even if you hit them from another angle.

- The AI does not use the afterburner to catch up to targets they are assigned to protect:


- AI-controlled ships tend to make friends with each other when chasing down a single target, usually a fighter:

[Fury]

Afterburner use factor on lower difficulties should be trivial fix. Unfortunately I can't do anything about to which quadrant AI decides to direct power to, my guess is that this would be something Sushi could improve on for flag $smart shield management. I think the issue you're showing in your three last screenshots is fairly common in FS2, that is because AI does not do any distance or collision checks with other ships other than its current target.

[Fury]

Yeah, and even IF stated otherwise, as far as I can tell by looking at the code. :/ Turret/subsystem AI classes don't appear to do anything based on what I see in the code, although I thought I remember someone saying they COULD see a difference. I dunno.

I just tested $accuracy, $Friendly AI Fire Delay Scale, $Hostile AI Fire Delay Scale and $Max Aim Update Delay on turrets. Changing values of those flags did make a difference. So obviously AI classes work on turrets even though it is not readily apparent from looking at the code.

[MatthTheGeek]

I can tell you AI classes do have an effect on turrets. When using the custom AI on turret, I noticed their rate of fire is increased considerably, actually they fire at the maximum rate of fire allowed.

[Reprobator]

Just tryed with "no mod" i have the same problem, i guess this is time for a fresh fs2 install 

[Fury]

actually they fire at the maximum rate of fire allowed.

That is governed by $Friendly AI Fire Delay Scale and $Hostile AI Fire Delay Scale, which in my tables happens to be 1.0 on all but very easy and easy difficulties. So yes, turrets on medium difficulty and above would be able to fire at rates specified in weapons table.

[MatthTheGeek]

I know, that's why I created a Turreted class which keeps the settings of the retail Captain class, in order to preserve balance