[Lucika]

Let's see... we are closely living together with the Vasudans for 32 years. And still, we can easily find a huge lot of racist assholes ("stupid cattle"). I ask: how can you possibly hate a Vasudan if you grew up next to them? And you never openly expressed this (since the society didn't crumble and there were no open riots against the Vasudans as far as we know)?
I can hardly accept that - thus I postulate that those who are part of the NTF had to actually experience an open war against the Vasudans (not counting those who are still mourning about a relative's death - but hey, nobody seems to feel such an anger towards the Shivans, at least definitely not that much of men, so I can ignore that) - but this means that they had to be pilots at least 33 years ago (35 would be more realistic)! This is crazy! I mean, a herd of old racist men...
What the ****?! 

[Kie99]

I'd expect that growing up next to Vasudans would be very rare.  Don't forget that for 14 years they have been at war, so integration would have started a maximum of 32 years ago, and there was the reconstruction period with a number of separate competing governmental blocs, which would further hinder integration.  Separate fleets are maintained and I imagine both species live mainly on different planets.  The economic prosperity of the Vasudans would realistically lead to resentment.

[Mongoose]

The thing is, I doubt most Terrans in the Reconstruction Era grew up "next to" the Vasudans.  Sure, there was plenty of mingling on a professional level, but you weren't going to see Vasudans moving into an all-Terran neighborhood, or any sort of analogy like that to our own sad racial issues.  For one, while both species apparently have very similar environmental tolerances, I doubt they correspond exactly; for another, and far more significantly, there's not going to be an immediate cultural blending between two species with thousands of years of continuous societal development each.  I'm sure that there were plenty of older Terrans who exhibited racist (species-ist?) sentiments against the Vasudans that lingered from the 14-Year War, but we know for a fact that the Neo-Terran Front was founded on the popular anti-Vasudan sentiment among the younger members of the "Lost Generation."  It wasn't flat-out racism so much as resentment over the Vasudan economic recovery being so much faster and widespread than that of the Terrans.  Bosch manipulated those feelings to create the public justification for the rebellion.

(I've been getting post-sniped all over the place recently. )

[Snail]

Read the intelligence entry.

[Black Wolf]

People grow up "next to" blacks, asians and jews here on earth, but you still have racism, and that's just towards people of the same species. I can easily imagine people hating Vasudans at any age/background.

[Ziame]

People grow up "next to" blacks, asians and jews here on earth, but you still have racism, and that's just towards people of the same species. I can easily imagine people hating Vasudans at any age/background.

^that^

And you've to remember dude, people ARE stupid cattle.

[TrashMan]

Now that's not a nice thing to say. Keep such moooooooosings to yourself.

[MatthTheGeek]

Now that's not a nice thing to say.

What, that people are stupid ? Whatever you may think, most of them are. They pollute, they are racist, they hurt for pleasure, they vote for extremists, they bring wars for either foy or money, and they run windows. Fortunately not all, but most of them. And that's no rant, that fact. People have been stupid for thousands years and there is no reason it's gonna change the next 5 centuries.

[General Battuta]

It's a bit more complex than that. The situation dictates whether or not people are 'stupid'. We can all be pretty smart or pretty asinine depending on a number of environmental factors.

This might be a better discussion for GenDisc, though.

[Kie99]

Now that's not a nice thing to say.

What, that people are stupid ? Whatever you may think, most of them are. They pollute, they are racist, they hurt for pleasure, they vote for extremists, they bring wars for either foy or money, and they run windows. Fortunately not all, but most of them. And that's no rant, that fact. People have been stupid for thousands years and there is no reason it's gonna change the next 5 centuries.

Stupid compared to what?

[Colonol Dekker]

I interpreted the title as "golden era for humanity"
 

[MatthTheGeek]

Stupid compared to what they would do if they had more detachment. Most people do things without thinking it's bad, and when you point those things out, they realize that yeah, it's bad, never thought about it before. After all, if everyone does things, it surely means that it's good to do so, isn't it ? I'm pretty sure I myself do a lot of stupid things without realizing.

And that's really the point of the topic, because this lack of detachment, on a larger scale, is why people followed Bosh in the anti-zod fury. Had they have more detachment they may have realized that Vasudans aren't their enemies, that the TV-war is over and done with, and that fighting a new and useless war wasn't what was gonna improve their lives and make a nicer world for their children. That's how they are stupid : they believe what they are told without detachment.

I admit my explanation is probably a little simplistic, but that's the best way I found to express my point of vue. So yeah, I think people are stupid. Most of them. On the other hand you have people that persist in thinking they are right even if you point things out, but that's an other subject.

[General Battuta]

You need to parametrize 'stupid', define correct and incorrect outcomes, and segregate bad information from bad cognitive operations before you can really make a claim like that.

[MatthTheGeek]

Sorry, I re-edited my post while you typed yours. So as I say, I admit it's simplistic. However I'm no native English speaker so I try to make myself understood the best I can, maybe being a little harsh, but that's it.

[General Battuta]

I think I would agree with a more specific statement of your thesis, namely, "Human reasoning is consistently and systematically flawed in certain respects."

We've got some mental glitches that need patching.

[MatthTheGeek]

Yeah. Some of them are bugs and some others are features, but I agree with you

[Colonol Dekker]

Some are inherent core directives perfected through millenia of evolution. In place because they're in our own best interests. . . Only in an anti-zod sense mind you. I'm for all flavours of human

[TrashMan]

You need to parametrize 'stupid', define correct and incorrect outcomes, and segregate bad information from bad cognitive operations before you can really make a claim like that.

What? You mean the world being a s****hole that is is today is not proof enough?
Masses can be pretty stupid. This is common knowledge/sense. I don't need a scientific paper to confirm that anymore than I need one to confirm the moon is not made out of cheese.

[General Battuta]

We're doing better than we ever have, and most of the relevant indices are trending upwards.

Life today is better for more people than it ever has been in the past.

[Kie99]

Stupid compared to what they would do if they had more detachment. Most people do things without thinking it's bad, and when you point those things out, they realize that yeah, it's bad, never thought about it before. After all, if everyone does things, it surely means that it's good to do so, isn't it ? I'm pretty sure I myself do a lot of stupid things without realizing.

And that's really the point of the topic, because this lack of detachment, on a larger scale, is why people followed Bosh in the anti-zod fury. Had they have more detachment they may have realized that Vasudans aren't their enemies, that the TV-war is over and done with, and that fighting a new and useless war wasn't what was gonna improve their lives and make a nicer world for their children. That's how they are stupid : they believe what they are told without detachment.

I admit my explanation is probably a little simplistic, but that's the best way I found to express my point of vue. So yeah, I think people are stupid. Most of them. On the other hand you have people that persist in thinking they are right even if you point things out, but that's an other subject.

OK so humanity is stupid compared to how it would be if it was less stupid.  'Humanity could be improved' is a lot less attention grabbing and edgy, but it's also a damn sight more accurate.