Author Topic: Dragon Age: Origins  (Read 31681 times)

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Offline CP5670

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Is this accurate?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1096-Dragon-Age-Origins

??

srsly....... :confused:

I haven't followed this game closely, but he pretty much summed up my thoughts on medieval fantasy games in general. :p The game universes are neither believable nor creative and original.

This seems to be a good game for what it's supposed to be though.

 

Offline Scotty

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I haven't followed this game closely, but he pretty much summed up my thoughts on medieval fantasy games in general. :p The game universes are neither believable nor creative and original.

This seems to be a good game for what it's supposed to be though.

 :wtf:

You expect a fantasy ANYTHING to be believable?

 

Offline CP5670

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You missed my point. I want plot universes in games to at least be one or the other. If a game has a fantasy setting, then it should be something original and unique. One example that comes to mind is Grim Fandango.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Then you, and Yahtzee, didn't pay much attention, since this one actually is rather unique. The familar elements, like Elves, are there, but they have been arranged in a much-different form. (The Elves are part post-Civil War blacks and part medieval Jewish analog, for example.)
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And that was already done in The Witcher, where humans had conquered the Elvish lands and forced them to live in slums inside their cities.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
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[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

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[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
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Offline karajorma

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If we're talking about making a darker fantasy setting D&D got there years ago with Dark Sun and their tribes of desert wandering cannibalistic halflings. :p
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Offline NGTM-1R

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And that was already done in The Witcher, where humans had conquered the Elvish lands and forced them to live in slums inside their cities.

BioWare makes retreads. Nobody ever pretended otherwise. They make very good ones, however, and we're here on a forum dedicated the best of the best of rebuilt games on rebuilt mechanics using rebuilt plots, so what are you *****ing about? :P
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Offline Ace

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If we're talking about making a darker fantasy setting D&D got there years ago with Dark Sun and their tribes of desert wandering cannibalistic halflings. :p

Thee years ago? Older... much older...
Ace
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Offline mxlm

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You expect a fantasy ANYTHING to be believable?
If you don't, then you haven't been reading the right stuff.

Go pick up A Game of Thrones or The Darkness That Comes Before. Not coincidentally, AGoT was one of the influences Bioware was citing for DA.
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Offline TrashMan

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You missed my point. I want plot universes in games to at least be one or the other. If a game has a fantasy setting, then it should be something original and unique. One example that comes to mind is Grim Fandango.

BAh! Keep your tastes. Something like Grim Fandango is interesting as a diversion once in a while.

I like my fantasy like fantasy. And I like it fantastical and realistic (or should I say, believalbe?) You can have both. DA:O is both. It's universe is familiar, but fresh. Fantastical, but believable.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Final Fantasy 4 was the best Fantasy seting made...ever.
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Offline CP5670

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BAh! Keep your tastes. Something like Grim Fandango is interesting as a diversion once in a while.

I like my fantasy like fantasy. And I like it fantastical and realistic (or should I say, believalbe?) You can have both. DA:O is both. It's universe is familiar, but fresh. Fantastical, but believable.

You must live in another world if you consider things like elves, dragons and magic to be believable. :p

 

Offline Turambar

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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Dragon wings. They are curious constructs, are they not?

I once estimated that a mid-sized dragon weighing the same as a large bull elephant, about six tons, would be largely similar in size (length, wing span) and weigh to Chance Vought F4U Corsair. However, a dragon typically has slightly larger wing area, and therefore lower wing loading which reduces stall speed, but nevertheless I would estimate that in order to maintain altitude, the airspeed velocity of an unladen dragon must stay above 60 knots, or about 110 km/h. The portrayal of high dragons in flight actually fit this estimation fairly well; they are going pretty fast.

Of course, this also means that the dragon wings must have structural strength comparable to medium sized aircraft's wings, which is quite impressive from bone and especially muscles and tendons. Of course, this isn't an impossible feat in locked flight configuration, and I suspect that like many species of birds, dragons also can lock their wings for glide, but for the dragons to be able to flap their wings, truly their muscles must be comparable to hydraulic pistons and tendons to thick steel cables.  For the dragons to be able to control their descent in a stall, withstand the impact on landing, and even produce enough lift to hover is truly impressive from an engineering point of view - these things must have some pretty intelligent designers behind them!

Since dragons like birds produce both thrust and lift with their wings, the requirements on their bone structure, flight muscles and tendons are sky high, pardon the pun. For the sake of comparison, the heaviest flying birds are around 20 kg in size. If we were to grow this bird's size until it reached the dragon grade weight of six metric tons, it's muscle and tendon cross-section area would only increase up to 44 times, while it's weight increase would be 300-fold. That means, in order to produce and withstand the required forces for comparable operation, the muscles must be about seven times as dense, and tendons and bones made of seven times as durable material as the original bird's muscles, tendons and bones.*

So, estimated bone strength of a bull elephant sized dragon would be about seven to ten times that of bird bone, and similarly it's muscle density and tendon durability would have similar quantities.


Of course, a bull elephant sized dragon is not exactly large. But the problem with LARGE dragons is that they usually are proportionally scaled-up models of the smaller, somewhat sensible dragons. Which means that their stall speed would be comparable to a large airliner rather than a WW2 fighter airplane, and no amount of muscles could possible move those flappers of wings effectively enough to produce the thrust required to maintain such airspeed velocity, nevermind hovering or taking off from a standing start. Truly, some powerful magicks are required for these creatures to function.


This excercise should be sufficient to make you comprehend why materials such as dragon bone are so sought after for weapons use. I doubt even nanocarbon tube constructs would have better strength or durability.

In fact it might be possible to build a space elevator out of high dragon tendon, if it were possible to aquire a long enough piece.


*Of course, since it's wing area would also only go up to about 44 times the original, it would mean it would also need to fly about seven times faster than it's original-sized bird counterpart... it would also need to land seven times faster, and I shudder to think of the logistics of providing it enough food to power those turbocharged muscles. Not only would it require 300 times the amount of food as it's normally weighted counterpart, but the increased muscle power means its metabolism would be boosted up to about 7-10 times as high as the original bird's, bringing the required amount of energy content to about 2000 times that of the original bird.

And remember, this creature we're talking about here is comparable to only a very small, elephant-sized dragon.

This is a very good reason as to why dragons are typically very, very hostile to anything they come across. They are undoubtedly plagued by constant hunger and forced to use their magic constantly in order to sustain themselves. It also explains why dragons - especially large ones - tend to hoard magical loot and sleep on top of it most of the time.


IT ALL MAKES PERFECT SENSE! :lol:
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 02:03:45 pm by Herra Tohtori »
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Offline Ace

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these things must have some pretty intelligent designers behind them!

Don't be silly, they're obviously under extremely strong selective pressures. Which means heavily reduced genetic diversity and inbreeding that explains some of their insanity. (coupled with always being hungry)
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Offline BloodEagle

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Offline Flipside

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Either that, or someone has read 'Guards! Guards!' by Pratchett ;)

 

Offline CP5670

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...

IT ALL MAKES PERFECT SENSE! :lol:

I stand corrected. :D

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Obviously someone has never heard of the acidic blood to produce hydrogen for lighter-than-air flight sacs theory.
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Obviously someone has never heard of the acidic blood to produce hydrogen for lighter-than-air flight sacs theory.


Well, there's just not enough volume within a typical dragon to reduce it's net density in a meaningful way. I mean, sure, it could be that the body of a dragon is akin to that of zeppelin, but I still find myself quite doubtful on that account - if that were the case, they would not have much body weight to throw around in melee combat, and melee combat with a dragon is almost universally portrayed as a capital bad idea. For a dragon to reduce it's density by such structures, it would require the majority of the things within the dragon's skin to be filled with gas at 1 atm pressure.

Of course they could maybe expand their body when flying, making them more like a biological blowfish blimp than a zeppelin, but you don't see that kind of badyear blimps in the fantasy skies, do you? I for one have never heard this sort of behaviour associated to dragons. It would be most demeaning and there would still be the matter of propulsion, unless they simply behaved like hot air balloons.

No, I am fairly certain indeed that dragons are in fact heavier than air and do not use hydrostatic buoyancy as their primary method of aerial locomotion. Other options are more unlikely from physics perspective, but this is simply unacceptable.

Of course, it WOULD explain why Bard of Esgaroth was able to slay Smaug with a single arrow; a punctured blimp would eventually lose it's buoyancy and when in ground eventually collapse without internal pressure to keep it together. A flaming arrow puncturing a hydrogen bag would ensure a bad day for a dragon, apart from lost integrity it would soon become a flaming, falling wreckage. Maybe Smaug's heart was more of an analogy. Anatomically I find it not very plausible that an arrow would easily pierce the chest cavity of a dragon the size of Smaug deep enough to hit it's heart, but maybe that would be a matter of another essay about the effectiveness of bow and arrow on dragon hunting...


This is disturbing. I now have suspicions that every story about dragons has been somehow subtly manipulated for storytellers who wanted to portray a fierce monster rather than a species of tranquil, sedate floaters of the sky. :blah:


@Flipside: I had in fact read Guards! Guards as well as Colour of Magic, but I was not thinking of them while writing that post, I was just pondering the plausibility of draconian flight from the engineering perspective.
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