[General Battuta]

I have no problem with religion, I simply have a problem with religion (a matter of personal, non-disconfirmable faith) interfering with testable, disconfirmable science and social issues.

Mathematics and religion are completely different. Religion has no first postulates and should be taken entirely on faith; any one religion is as non-disconfirmable as the next, making an assertion about God as probable as an assertion about Allah (same god, I guess) or Brahma or the Tooth Fairy.

Mathematics can be rigorously proven from the ground up based on a few fundamental axioms. Mathematics makes disconfirmable predictions through the means of proofs.

[Pyro MX]

Now that we ended up on the art/religion debate, there's no way out. The HLP station will have some bulkheads damaged after this!

* Sneaks out of the room *

[Flipside]

Bulb changed.

Red Alert initiated.

[Uchuujinsan]

Mathematics: If A then B
Religion: A therefore B

It's the difference between "The Bible is true, so God exists" and "If the Bible is true, then God exists"

[blackhole]

I am insulted by the idiotic claims in this thread that Math is not an art and cannot be an art. Math is what makes every single CGI-anything possible in the first place. Pixel shaders is the art of using various mathematical equations to produce an artistic output. Saying that math is the opposite of art is like sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

But then you guys do that anyway.

[Flipside]

People are allowed to have a different opinion, you know. Not that I neccesarily do, but like many things in life, it's a question of perception, some people think coding is an art, some think it is a craft, some think it is neither, some think it is both, they aren't always wrong, simply of a different opinion.

[Mongoose]

I am insulted by the idiotic claims in this thread that Math is not an art and cannot be an art. Math is what makes every single CGI-anything possible in the first place. Pixel shaders is the art of using various mathematical equations to produce an artistic output. Saying that math is the opposite of art is like sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

But then you guys do that anyway.

The thing is, that's an example of mathematics being used to produce artwork, not mathematics as artwork in and of itself.

[Turambar]

what we really need is to invent prettier numbers and require all math to be done in awesome arabic-style calligraphy.

[castor]

I am insulted by the idiotic claims in this thread that Math is not an art and cannot be an art. Math is what makes every single CGI-anything possible in the first place. Pixel shaders is the art of using various mathematical equations to produce an artistic output. Saying that math is the opposite of art is like sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

But then you guys do that anyway.

The thing is, that's an example of mathematics being used to produce artwork, not mathematics as artwork in and of itself.

Well, one doesn't need to be a mathematician to be able to admire and enjoy its abstract aesthetics. Definitely an art

[Scotty]

what we really need is to invent prettier numbers and require all math to be done in awesome arabic-style calligraphy.

I would like you to look up the term "arabic numerals" then sit back and appreciate the irony of your request.

[Spicious]

It's not so entertaining when you remember they originally came from India.

[Liberator]

Well, one doesn't need to be a mathematician to be able to admire and enjoy its abstract aesthetics. Definitely an art

Umm, yeah you do...

[Ford Prefect]

Several of us in this thread who are not mathematicians have already expressed our admiration for the aesthetics of math. So, no, you don't.

[Scotty]

Maybe something should be put in order:

Math is not completely a visual art.  It is an abstract, yet still concrete, art of thought.

[blackhole]

Well, one doesn't need to be a mathematician to be able to admire and enjoy its abstract aesthetics. Definitely an art

Umm, yeah you do...

Several of us in this thread who are not mathematicians have already expressed our admiration for the aesthetics of math. So, no, you don't.

Because you seem to be deprived of such things, allow me to educate you in Logic. What we have here is a very simple situation.

If we make the claim that it is possible for event A to occur, all we require to prove this statement correct is a single positive example. So, if someone has expressed their admiration for the aesthetics for math, and they are not a mathematician, then this is an example of event A occurring and thus proves the statement correct. You saying "No its not" is not going to make the statement incorrect, its just going to make you look stupid. Your only possible objection to this statement must either be 1. the positive example of event A was false or 2. that event A doesn't apply to you.

[Scotty]

Who exactly was that post aimed at?

Second, logic matters bupkiss to opinion, and that's all that's being provided right now.  Liberator does not think math is an art.  Ford does.  Obviously, we cannot really objectively prove one or the other right or wrong, since the definition of art is open to interpretation.

[Liberator]

I still want to know how life has improved by Mathematics as a product of it's own existence, not in the use of some other discipline such as chemistry, physics or engineering.

[Ford Prefect]

That has nothing to do with whether or not mathematics is art. The relevant question here is whether or not math can possibly be accurately described as the aesthetically motivated manipulation of forms and patterns. It doesn't matter if this description always applies, only if it can apply. If you want to call into question the larger social validity of artistic processes in general, that is a different debate.

[Scotty]

If you use that definition for art, nothing is art.

Art is the mesh, if you will, between design and though with our own personal interpretation of aesthetics.  No paint spattered canvas ever improved your life as a product of it's own existence.  What did was your interpretation of the intent, of the abstract thought behind the painting itself.

Before the Post EDIT:  Sniped, dang.  Oh well.  Main point aimed at Lib.

[General Battuta]

I still want to know how life has improved by Mathematics as a product of it's own existence, not in the use of some other discipline such as chemistry, physics or engineering.

I thought we were arguing about art here.

Anyway, if you don't see the value of knowledge for its own sake, and you'd rather do things purely for utilitarian reasons, I'm not sure we're on common ground.