[Lucika]

I have an interesting idea. Probably not true, but who the hell knows. You might be interested.

Let me quote the first two Ancient monologues.

Ours was a proud people, and always the strongest. For thousands of years our empire expanded. For so long we could imagine ourselves alone in the universe. For so long never did we encounter advanced life. And we travelled faster and further, spreading in our galaxy and before long we could see the day when our reachable systems would have been exploited. And then there would be nowhere else to go.
And we discovered subspace. It gave us our galaxy and it gave us the universe. And we saw other advanced life. And we subdued it or we crushed it. In months the extermination of billions of years of evolution on a similar but slower path. With subspace, our empire would surely know no boundaries.

I know that it was said by an Ancient, but couldn't a Shivan say the exact same words?

When the destroyers came for us, we attacked. Never had we been defeated. They are like the others. Strange, hideous, resisting, fighting. Only these were not like the others. They did not die.
We made our first retreat. We could forego one system. We left it to the destroyers and went elsewhere. But they followed, they hunted us. They followed us when we retreated, discovered where we lived.
For a long time, we did not know why they chased us. They were no ordinary enemy. They did not seek our territory, our technology, our resources.
Now we know our crime was sin.

We attacked. Let's say for the sake of argument that my silly theory is correct. If so, the Shivans mean that we're the destroyers (note what Alpha 1 says at the final cutscene of FS1: Long had we been the destroyer. Our turn had nearly come. ).
And we destroyed the Lucifer. The Shivans retreated. But we followed. 32 years later.
They were no ordinary enemy. They did not seek our territory, our technology, our resources.
Of course we weren't. We were inferior to the Shivans (but they might not've known that), hence our strategies might've seemed to be crazy to them.

I theoritize that the Shivans are "Stage Cutscene 2" at the end of Freespace 2. But of course, the situation isn't the same in reality. They might have been misled by Bosch. They might have false information.
They might believe that we're the Destroyers...

[Dark Hunter]

Well... a couple of problems with that: "These were not like the others: they did not die." We did die. A lot. Vasuda got toasted. The Shivans had the GTA and PVN on the defensive for the entirety of the Great War up until the Lucy's destruction. The Monologue implies a complete reversal of that idea: they attacked, they got pwned hard, they ran. Details on the end of the Great War are sparse, but I got the idea that the Shivans fought to the last... erm, Shivan, rather than simply running away.

There's that, and there's the line: "We made our first retreat. We could forego one system." One system. The GTA/VPE combined space was more than two dozen star systems, not just one.

Finally, there's the later Monologues: we never blew up the Shivan homeworld. We never hunted them into extinction. It could theoretically be said that those would have taken place in FS3. But that still leaves the final Monologue, which states that "Their shields do not work in subspace..." I rather think the Shivans would know the weaknesses of their own shield system (which we stole from them), in which case this wouldn't be a big discovery, but just stating the incredibly obvious, definitely not worth mentioning in the Monologue.

Definitely an intriguing theory, though. The Shivans must have some reason for exterminating intelligent species; it's possible they consider us a threat, but I don't know if that is in a direct manner (as in, a threat to them personally), or if we're a potential threat to something larger that the Shivans feel needs to be protected.

[Kolgena]

It's vague enough that it would apply to many aggressive space colonizing species, methinks.

Like, if those were said by the Buggers in Ender's universe, well, it'd still make quite a bit of sense.

[ragingloli]

Another problem:
"For a long time, we did not know why they chased us. They were no ordinary enemy. They did not seek our territory, our technology, our resources."

The first part indicates that they could not intercept or decypher the enemy's communications. Now the GTVA was in that position with the Shivans, they had no clue on how to decypher Shivan communication, even during FS2. On the other hand, they had not a lot of trouble descyphering Ancient texts that told them about the Shivan's weakness. If this was spoken by a Shivan, we would not know that text because we can't decypher it.

The second part, about them not seeking territory, technology or resources, also fits more on the Shivans who equally have no interest in planets but instead go on a pure rampage.

[Lucika]

Well... a couple of problems with that:
"These were not like the others: they did not die." We did die. A lot.

What if they're talking on a global scale and one or more beings doesn't just enough? What if they mean "die" as the total extinction of a species?

There's that, and there's the line: "We made our first retreat. We could forego one system." One system. The GTA/VPE combined space was more than two dozen star systems, not just one.

The One System they actually retreated from, in my interpretation, is the nebula.

As to the shields, I really have nothing to say. I might pull out an explanation from my ass about the beam cannons or ETAK, but the point I am trying to make across is that the Shivans might have a fate parallel to the Ancient's, but of course, not same word-by-word.

Definitely an intriguing theory, though. The Shivans must have some reason for exterminating intelligent species; it's possible they consider us a threat, but I don't know if that is in a direct manner (as in, a threat to them personally), or if we're a potential threat to something larger that the Shivans feel needs to be protected.

I believe they did believe that we were a threat (I have no clue as to which regard they believe so) as this seems to be the only legitimate explanation of the cutoff at Capella.

[Mongoose]

I believe they did believe that we were a threat (I have no clue as to which regard they believe so) as this seems to be the only legitimate explanation of the cutoff at Capella.

Maybe they just needed to go somewhere far enough away that it required the energy of a supernova to get there.

[Hades]

In the FS1 cutscene selection, the cutscenes are labeled "Ancients 1-5", just so you know.

[Lucika]

In the FS1 cutscene selection, the cutscenes are labeled "Ancients 1-5", just so you know.

I never said that it wasn't an Ancient who spoke those words. I meam that the Shivans might have a similar fate as to the Ancients, with them believing us to be the Destroyers.

[Fangz]

Yeah, I think the element of history cycling around is pretty strong in Freespace. I hold that the strongest explanation for the Shivan actions is fear - the GTVA is an unknown threat to them, that has managed to match the technology that had once been the Shivans' strongest asset. They have no idea how much stronger they are than us, so with Capella they simply choose the safest (to them) course of action - to block off the Capella system permanent so the Gamma Draconis node cannot be used.

Also, the Vasudans are heavily implied to be related to the Ancients, so the Shivans have special reasons to fear them. (This, I think, is why Bosch thinks that he can get the humans to ally with the Shivans by abandoning the Vasudans.) To the Shivans, the GTVA represents the return of their old nemesis, only now technologically stronger than ever. Of course they are scared ****less of us. Throughout the series, we see from the perspectives of the humans and the ancients, who see the Shivans as godlike beings of destruction. But with the Shivans, they've had thousands of years to dream old nightmares about the Ancients somehow surviving, somehow coming back, somehow figuring out their tricks and defenses, somehow punishing them for their own old crimes.

When Bosch went to communicate with them, just after the first Sanathas was destroyed, and the Shivans learned that the GTVA had at least one Juggernaut class ship, the Shivans probably thought the GTVA had sent an envoy to dictate terms for Shivan surrender.

[General Battuta]

I dunno. My vague suspicion with all such theories is that we just want the Shivans to be afraid of us because it means we can stop being afraid of them.

[Fangz]

Well, the Shivans being afraid of the GTVA doesn't mean the GTVA doesn't need to be afraid of the Shivans. It just means the GTVA should be afraid of the Shivans being no longer afraid of the GTVA...

[headdie]

Well, the Shivans being afraid of the GTVA doesn't mean the GTVA doesn't need to be afraid of the Shivans. It just means the GTVA should be afraid of the Shivans being no longer afraid of the GTVA...

now that is a scary scenario

[Titan]

In the FS1 cutscene selection, the cutscenes are labeled "Ancients 1-5", just so you know.

I never said that it wasn't an Ancient who spoke those words. I meam that the Shivans might have a similar fate as to the Ancients, with them believing us to be the Destroyers.

Possibly something like in Halo.

(Says the guy that has only played Halo:CE, and had the rest of the story explained to him by a friend.)

[Aardwolf]

I prefer the "FS2 intro narrator is Bosch" theory better.