[headdie]

After following Topic: List of Volition tabling errors listing issues with the Freespace 2 tables in terms of how they compare to the fluff supplied in game or otherwise conflicting data within the tables I have knocked up a small mod which "fixes" some of these issues using .tbl.  So far there is just a limited fix on the ships but I want to look at the weapons table as well so any suggestions there are welcome.

http://www.mediafire.com/?zo2ynxdnotn

Please download, use and comment.  Any suggestions for improvements on the changes made or new changes to make post them here for discussion. 

Please note that this is a little side project to provide a non SCP supported "fix" to table entry's and not to provide the player with a set of "ultimate" fighters/weapons so new changes will have to be justifiable for example adding the


Version 1.0 - Headdie - 30-12-2009

Nahema = switched speeds around so now 72max - 90ocl
Myrmidon = added 10 to each secondary bank capacity and harpoon compatibility and removed torpedo capability
Artemis = changed bomber weight to Light and set ocl to 78 in keeping with average overclock speeds
Artemis D.H. = changed bomber weight to Light set speed to 70 to reflect the fact is supposedly superior and set ocl to 87 in keeping with average overclock speeds and the fact it shares engines with the Aries
Bakha = set ocl speed to 78 as like Artemis it was set to 65 with no bonus
Medusa = changed bomber weight to medium to better match speed, hits and capacity
Sekhmet = changed ocl speed to 70 so there is a meaningful boost but still below par this is based on the fact that though same capacity as Ursa it has slightly lighter armour and is newer

[General Battuta]

Hmm. I'd pull Harpoon compatibility from the Myrmidon.

I will enjoy trying this out. Keep in mind it will break some campaigns.

[Fury]

Remove settings.ini, multi.log and cache folder from your mod. These aren't needed. Also, you're not using a tbm correctly. When using a tbm and altering stats of existing ship, this is what you should do as an example.

Code: [Select]

$Name:                          GTB Artemis D.H.
+nocreate
$Rotdamp:                       0.45
$Max Velocity:          0.0, 0.0, 70.0
$Allowed PBanks:        ( "Balor" "Subach HL-7" "Prometheus S" "Prometheus R" "Lamprey" "Circe" "Maxim")
$Default SBanks:        ( "Tornado" "Cyclops#short" "Cyclops#short" )
$SBank Capacity:        ( 40, 60, 60 )
$Max Oclk Speed:        80.0
$Afterburner:           YES
+Aburn Max Vel: 0.0, 0.0, 120.0
+Aburn For accel:       0.7
+Aburn Fuel:            300.0
+Aburn Burn Rate:       50.0
+Aburn Rec Rate:        25.0
In short, you use +nocreate and include only the minimum amount needed. Myrmidon's changes I personally do not agree with.

[Qent]

Myrmidon = added 10 to each secondary bank capacity

Why did you do this? I don't see how it was an inconsistency to begin with.

[headdie]

Myrmidon capacity was adjusted based on the fluff that the fighter has an ultra efficient hull design but it has no real advantage in missile capacity over other fighters and compared to the Apollo has identical capacity which seemed odd to me I know it has three missile banks but to me that just means fire control for three types of missile and no real indicator of volume of ordnance.  The tweak puts it 10 points behind the original Herc.

I have also created separate builds one with all the tweaks and one without the weapon tweaks and ripped out the rubbish that is no longer needed in each file

complete mod]http://www.mediafire.com/?3mimitmmigm]complete mod

No weapon tweaks mod]http://www.mediafire.com/?2wnzjtyngyg]No weapon tweaks mod

Have fun

[Droid803]

Did you remember to get rid of the Helios Primaries on the Bahka and move them to secondaries?

[MatthTheGeek]

Myrmidon = added 10 to each secondary bank capacity

Why did you do this? I don't see how it was an inconsistency to begin with.

Nothing prevents people to make their own changes based on this fix . However I tend to agree with you and think this kind of criticism should be considered while finalizing this fix.

You should also consider adding the Check Hull flag to ships that tends to fire through their own hull.

[headdie]

Did you remember to get rid of the Helios Primaries on the Bahka and move them to secondaries?

just done it for the next release

You should also consider adding the Check Hull flag to ships that tends to fire through their own hull.

Does anyone have a list of these ships?

also

How about the description of the Kaiser that says it was designed to be used on bombers but most of the bombers can't load it.  Or the description in FS2 that says the Seth has 6 weapons but it only has 4.

I have double checked this and only the Boanerges and Osiris carry the weapon as a primary with the Ursa only carrying it in the turret what are the opinions on changing the following to have it as an available primary:

Bakha
Medusa
Amun
Boanerges
Ursa
Seraphim
Sekhmet

[Dragon]

Does anyone have a list of these ships?

You can add "Check Hull" to all turrets on all ships without any problems.
Most of ships with turrets have some setting which allows them to shoot throught their hull.
Also, you can add: "fire down normals", "fire on Traget" and "reset when idle" flags to multipart turrets, to enable more realistic behaviour.

[Qent]

You should also consider adding the Check Hull flag to ships that tends to fire through their own hull.

I think this changes balance too much.

I have double checked this and only the Boanerges and Osiris carry the weapon as a primary with the Ursa only carrying it in the turret what are the opinions on changing the following to have it as an available primary:

Bakha
Medusa
Amun
Boanerges
Ursa
Seraphim
Sekhmet

Again, I'd say this is a big balance change more appropriate for a full-fledged mod.

[headdie]

You should also consider adding the Check Hull flag to ships that tends to fire through their own hull.

I think this changes balance too much.

I have double checked this and only the Boanerges and Osiris carry the weapon as a primary with the Ursa only carrying it in the turret what are the opinions on changing the following to have it as an available primary:

Bakha
Medusa
Amun
Boanerges
Ursa
Seraphim
Sekhmet

Again, I'd say this is a big balance change more appropriate for a full-fledged mod.

Balance changes is why SCP cant officially support this.  This mod is for those occasions players want to see what if the game played as the fluff says and not as balanced some will like the changes, some wont notice a change for the most part and some will not like it at all.  end of the day it is up to you if you want to use this.  You also might want to consider the versions with a lesser effect such as the No weapon tweaks mod which only alters ship speeds at current.

Also i know it could very easily turn into a lot of work for little gain but i want to give it a shot

[Dragon]

This may be fun to use with Sushi's Velocity mod.

[Woolie Wool]

Hmm. I'd pull Harpoon compatibility from the Myrmidon.

I will enjoy trying this out. Keep in mind it will break some campaigns.

If you're talking about Myrmidon bombing, I think any campaign that uses that is massively flawed already. Bombing is for bombers. Not to mention the sheer game-breaking nature of being able to launch Helios in a Myrmidon, retreat at high speed for resupply, and do it again.

@headdie: I suggest you add this for the Prometheus R. This will make it more powerful than the Subach HL-7 but less powerful than the S or original:

Code: [Select]

$Name:                                 Prometheus R
+nocreate
$Fire Wait:                            0.35                            ;; in seconds
$Damage:                               24
$Armor Factor: 1.1
$Shield Factor: 0.8
$Subsystem Factor: 0.35
$Lifetime:                             2.0
$Energy Consumed: 0.60
Have you ever tried replacing the stock Shivan lasers with the Alouqua, Citra, and Phanuel? It will teach you to treat them with a lot more respect, that's for sure. That would probably need to be in an optional TBM apart from the main package though, as people designing maps with Shivan fighters often put excessive numbers of them, making it extremely difficult to survive extended combat with them using Lightspeed's Shivan guns.

[MatthTheGeek]

I have huges NO against changing the stats of the Promy R and Shivans weapons. Those being pieces of crap was obviously an intended feature, for ennemies (NTF and Shivans respectively) to use weak weapons. Changing them would make for a too, too high risk of breaking balance.

[Woolie Wool]

The Prom R is also a player weapon and explicitly protrayed as being stronger than the HL-7 in all flavor text concerning it.

[MatthTheGeek]

It obviously has a stronger per hit damage. That's all they meant, they didn't talked about the global DPS.

[Qent]

According to the weapon selection stats, the Prometheus R's armor DPS is around 80 to 100, and the shield DPS is around 20 to 40.

[Woolie Wool]

It obviously has a stronger per hit damage. That's all they meant, they didn't talked about the global DPS.

They didn't say anything of the sort. Samsa said that it"packs a bigger wallop" with absolutely no qualifiers attached. He wouldn't have said that if the Prom R was meant to be really weak.

[Qent]

I suggest splitting each tweak into its own .tbm to make it as easy as possible for people to drop them into their own mods, add them to mods they play, disable incompatible tweaks, disable tweaks they don't like, etc..

This mod really walks the line regarding what is and is not an error, so letting people choose for themselves would be good.

[Qent]

From post 1 on this topic I've been saying the correct course of action is for people to make their own remix mods. Why are you disagreeing with me if that's your contention as well?

I hope you understand why no unofficial fix could have been made widespread.

That's why this project should not be a mod to fix every "error" in the tables, but rather a repository of tweaks that are very easy to mix and match with the original FS2 campaign, new mods, and as many existing mods as possible.