Author Topic: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?  (Read 8924 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
I think The Race or The Empire of the Race is the best solution.

Any arbitrary word will feel contrived.

We just call ourselves 'mankind.' We've got 'The Empire of Man' and whatnot.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
If you want examples of names for their home planet:

Y Ddaear
Kalibotan
An Domhan
Yn Chruinney
An Saoghal
Honua
Duniya
Dor
Tlalticpactli
Tiksimuyu
Urd

Names for their species (in singular, you'll likely want to mutilate it into an English-plausible plural form regardless of the correct one):

Insan (Insanes  :lol:)
Bod Dynol (Dynoles)
Duine (Duine)
Yan-adam (??)
Olombelona (Olombela or something might work)
Tlacatl (Tlacatl)
Djin (biyolodjeye) (Djinni?)
Eniyan (Eniyans)

Names for their home star:

An/A'/Yn Ghrian
Haul
Kuarahy
La
Howl
Masoandro
Xemx
Tonatiuh
Johonaa'ei
Aldo
Jua
Araw
Shams


If you want something more obscure, research some dead language or another and pick your poison.
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Offline S-99

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
I think The Race or The Empire of the Race is the best solution.

Any arbitrary word will feel contrived.

We just call ourselves 'mankind.' We've got 'The Empire of Man' and whatnot.
Empire of man  :nod: is better sounding than the underwhelming and plain "empire of the race" :o Empire of man; this has for example a more detailed descriptor than the "empire of the race". When referring to an empire, it's better if there's a mention of what the people are called in that empire. The roman empire - these people are called romans, communist chinese republic - these people are called chinese, empire of man - oh these people call themselves man, empire of the race - huh?.

Any arbitrary word perhaps would sound contrived. The only reason i came up with those words in my last post in this thread is because i was reminded of that one episode of voyager where the vod'wa were coming out of stasis and the old word for vod'wa in telaxian was demon.

The ancients were ruthless and menacing in there conquest, having a name fit that would perhaps sound fitting.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
The Race means the same thing as Man, or The People, or whatever. It means 'us'.

 

Offline Desertfox287

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
The Race means the same thing as Man, or The People, or whatever. It means 'us'.
I personally don't think this is the best solution because it in my opinion of course seems so bland and doesn't seem to have much of a Freespace feell to it. I'd prefer something that goes with a theme more similar, and doesn't just mean "the people" I'd prefer them to have more of a character.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
Again, making up a name will feel contrived, and using an Earth mythological name makes no sense. There aren't many options left.

 

Offline Desertfox287

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
I am aware, but truly, we could use an Earth name, or simply the ancients from the perspective of terrans

 
Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
The Ancients, going off of ASW, consider lesser species to be inferior, so it is likely they would have some sort of genetic/pure mental complex. Why not then, have something like "The Highborn" or some other title of significance?


 

Offline Desertfox287

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
The Ancients, going off of ASW, consider lesser species to be inferior, so it is likely they would have some sort of genetic/pure mental complex. Why not then, have something like "The Highborn" or some other title of significance?


The only problem I have with that is as far as we know, that is only a part of their history, they most likely had names for themselves already by then

 

Offline S-99

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
Again, making up a name will feel contrived, and using an Earth mythological name makes no sense. There aren't many options left.
It doesn't matter because whatever is come up for a name will sound contrived...to you. We don't have V to make up a name, and of course anything in the light of V is never contrived  :lol: Using an earth mythological name of course doesn't need to happen because you're right, that wouldn't make too much sense.

It doesn't matter if race means the same thing as man (which almost does, but not the main shebang). The empire of man i consider to be better than your idea of the empire of the race. Since man is actually a descriptor for our species, while race is too open ended a word that sounds bland and doesn't have much for description past a group of people. I know the race is meant to sound ultimate, but all it puts in my head is "get ready to start your engines", the kkk just going crazy trying to figure out which race The Race is, or something that i couldn't help not be able to fear because it doesn't sound imposing.
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
You don't need to use 'The Empire of the Race'. It's merely an archetype, a suggestion of the kind of name that would work well.

 
Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
We can't call them the Race.  Everyone knows the Race is an empire of small, lizard-like aliens who attempted to conquer Earth during WWII and were winning until we nuked their asses.
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17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
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[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
Already mentioned in-thread.  :)

 
Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
Yes, but you haven't given up on the idea yet.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
The first name that came into my mind upon looking at this thread is "Altairians". :nervous:
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
Yes, but you haven't given up on the idea yet.

Because it's a good one.

The fact that Turtledove (who, for all his fictional merits, is an awful teacher) used it once doesn't make it his. It's an archetypical and elegant turn of language.

 

Offline ElMattador

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
If you want examples of names for their home planet:
...
Urd

Names for their species (in singular, you'll likely want to mutilate it into an English-plausible plural form regardless of the correct one):


...
Djin (biyolodjeye) (Djinni?)

Names for their home star:
...

If you want something more obscure, research some dead language or another and pick your poison.

IMO, since they have already been given a naming scene, that of the Mycenians/Minoans, we should use that.  How do you say "people" in Minoan?    How do you say "Home" (for the planet), and how do you say "sun" (for their home star)?

Thar we go, problem solved.  All we need to do is import those words into English/Latin, and we have names for stuff.  For ships, we could use names of their gods and stuff, which would be canon, and cool I think.  Djin I think were present in Minoan/Mycenian mythology I think, but I'm not sure, so that is a good name for something.  Urd sound Middle-Eastern/Mediterranean to me, so that might be cool to.
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?
You realize that naming scheme is GTVA's assignment to the remains left behind by Ancients (and mainly just derived from the designation of Knossos devices in FreeSpace 2)?

Also that the naming schemes are not very consistent in the first place. Terrans have mixed names from Christo/Judean (Leviathan), Greek (Perseus, Myrmidon, Erinyes etc.), Norse (Loki, Fenris) and Roman (Elysium) mythologies as well as at least one example taken from German legend (Faustus).

Shivans have designations mainly taken from Christo/Judean mythology (Great War designations are full of these - Nephilim, Lucifer, Shaitan, Seraphim, Dragon, Cain, Lilith, Demon, Asmodeus, Azrael), European mythology (Manticore, Basilisk) as well as names from Hindu mythology in FS2 (Ravana, Astaroth, Mara, Rakshasa) and some more Christo/Judean names (Sathanas, Moloch, Dis).

The Vasudan naming scheme is the most consistent, being entirely Egyptian - but then, this has a good explanation in-universe:

Quote
Because the Vasudan homeworld was primarily desert, the Terrans used Egyptian names to designate Vasudan warships during the Terran-Vasudan War and the Great War. After the defeat of the Shivans, the Vasudans insisted on maintaining this convention. The Emperor strongly identified with the history of Ancient Egypt, particularly the longevity of its civilization. Following their Emperor's example, Vasudans will take on what they call a Terran name from the myths and history of Ancient Egypt.


This campaign, however, is about Ancients fighting Shivans, and there's really no basis to use Minoan naming scheme, any more than any other naming scheme. Ship wise you could go with something similar as the Japanese used in WW2 - Navy Type Zero fighter etc. But I do oppose using Minoan names just because terrans designated Knossos device as "Knossos" thousands of years after Ancients had died.
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Offline Enioch

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?

Good God, how has this thread escaped my attention? :wtf:

IMO, since they have already been given a naming scene, that of the Mycenians/Minoans, we should use that.  How do you say "people" in Minoan? How do you say "Home" (for the planet), and how do you say "sun" (for their home star)?

Thar we go, problem solved.

That's what you think...  :rolleyes:

We don't know how you say "people" in Minoan. We don't know how you say "Home", or "Sun". We don't know s**t about what the Minoans called things, because the Minoan language is more than a dead language. It is lost.

We 've read Mycenian clay tablets (which aren't more than palace archives), but that's because Myceneans were Greeks, and spoke Greek. They just used another writing system. So, all Ventris (the guy who deciphered their script) had to do (and it wasn't easy) was to match the early Mycenean symbols with greek syllables, and voila! he could read Mycenean.

But Minoans weren't Greeks, although they lived in the island of Crete (which, today, belongs to Greece). They spoke a completely different language: they probably weren't even Indo-European. So we have absolutely no idea how they called things.

It's relatively safe to assume that the great palaces (Knossos, Phaistos, Malia and Zakros -pronounced Know-SOS, Phae -STOS, MA-lea and ZA-cross) were called that, because we found those names in Mycenean tablets (in the lines of: "Imports from Knossos: Two spears and two talents of bronze") and because during the antiquity these places retained their name. It's also noteworthy that these names have absolutely no known meaning in Greek, which is a testament to their pre-Greek origin.

What really bugs me (since I'm both Greek and an archaeologist) is the fact that the ASW team used the modern Greek names of pretty much every mycenean, cycladic and minoan archaeological site to name their ships. The minoans most certainly did not call the settlement 'Akrotiri'. That means 'Cape' in modern Greek, and only refers to where the site lies: in a cape, in the island of Santorini. 'Apesokari' means 'Never-corrupted-Grace', and refers to the church of Madonna Apesokari, which was near the site. And so on. And so forth.

I realize that since we have no idea what the Minoans called these sites, the ASW team (and those who had to deal with the Ancients before them) had to do with what they could get. I certainly have nothing better to suggest, if they insist in using Minoan-relative designations.

But this is QFT: :yes:
This campaign, however, is about Ancients fighting Shivans, and there's really no basis to use Minoan naming scheme, any more than any other naming scheme. Ship wise you could go with something similar as the Japanese used in WW2 - Navy Type Zero fighter etc. But I do oppose using Minoan names just because terrans designated Knossos device as "Knossos" thousands of years after Ancients had died.

EDIT: 200 posts.
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Offline ElMattador

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Re: Recommendations of names for the ancients as a species?

Good God, how has this thread escaped my attention? :wtf:

IMO, since they have already been given a naming scene, that of the Mycenians/Minoans, we should use that.  How do you say "people" in Minoan? How do you say "Home" (for the planet), and how do you say "sun" (for their home star)?

Thar we go, problem solved.

That's what you think...  :rolleyes:

But Minoans weren't Greeks, although they lived in the island of Crete (which, today, belongs to Greece). They spoke a completely different language: they probably weren't even Indo-European. So we have absolutely no idea how they called things.

It's relatively safe to assume that the great palaces (Knossos, Phaistos, Malia and Zakros -pronounced Know-SOS, Phae -STOS, MA-lea and ZA-cross) were called that, because we found those names in Mycenean tablets (in the lines of: "Imports from Knossos: Two spears and two talents of bronze") and because during the antiquity these places retained their name. It's also noteworthy that these names have absolutely no known meaning in Greek, which is a testament to their pre-Greek origin.

But this is QFT: :yes:
This campaign, however, is about Ancients fighting Shivans, and there's really no basis to use Minoan naming scheme, any more than any other naming scheme. Ship wise you could go with something similar as the Japanese used in WW2 - Navy Type Zero fighter etc. But I do oppose using Minoan names just because terrans designated Knossos device as "Knossos" thousands of years after Ancients had died.

EDIT: 200 posts.

Good job, you caught me being lazy and I said Minoan instead of Mycenian.  The naming scheme should be centered around those place names and so forth, and also words in Mycenian we do know.  Ancient Phoenician names could be used as well, because the Phoenicians had a presence on Crete for a time if I am not mistaken.  Could you verify that?

Herra, if you want to get nitpicky about the Terrans coming up with the naming scheme after the extinction of the ancients,   then what is the point, really, of giving the ancients any Earth names?  You would be forced to come up with a whole new language, like Klingon.  But then that would throw off the players because there would be 2 names for ships and stuff, one in madeupese, and the other in the already pre-determined naming scheme.

This is a conundrum indeed...
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