[NGTM-1R]

Spoiler:

Did you look at the size of that collector ship? It was as big as Sovereign, if not bigger, and the Collectors supposedly have advanced technology!

The same collector ship that took out several Turian CRUISERS. The Normandy was just severely OP'ed for it's size.

Spoiler:

Watch the end cutscene of ME1 again, then, you fail at size comparisons. It's also still not a Reaper.

Assertion not supported by evidence. It took a Turian patrol. Such things would be composed of...frigates.

[TrashMan]

Spoiler:

Watch the cutscene where the Normandy approached the "disabled" collector ship again. You can clearly see 2 turian cruisers.

Also, the Collector ship was huge, and supposedly they had very advanced tech, some of their own, some given to them by the reapers.
Did you really get the high-tech impression from them in the game? I didn't. The Normandy gun packs more punch than theirs.

Also, the whole seeker swarms were a big WTF moment.
Do they inject someone with some paralizing agents? We see them actually stinging the colonists. But can they sting trough heavy armor? Kinetic shields? How do they deal with mechs?
If it's some sort of stasis field, why the heck do the seeker sting?

[Scotty]

Spoiler:

Do they inject someone with some paralizing agents? We see them actually stinging the colonists. But can they sting trough heavy armor? Kinetic shields? How do they deal with mechs?
If it's some sort of stasis field, why the heck do the seeker sting?

Spoiler:

1) Yes.
2) Apparently.
3) Yes.  "Shields" don't stop non-missile objects, if you recall from the codex.  I distinctly remember it describing how shields don't activate unless the object is moving fast enough so people don't launch their chairs across the room when they try to sit down.
4) Stop the gears with their broken corpses!
5) Paralyzing agent.  Induces stasis.

[Grizzly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeQlC50GdXA&feature=channel

EDI is a CYLON !

[mxlm]

So I finished the game this past weekend. Initial thoughts: pretty much all of the side quests--no, scratch that, pretty much all of the party loyalty sidequests were pretty good. The main plot...well, while I was playing I didn't really have any complaints until the final boss. However, in hindsight:

Spoiler:

A: I"m working for Cerberus? **** you
B: The Alliance doesn't care that I've turned traitor? **** you
C: Humanity can't be bothered/does not have the power to investigate entire colonies disappearing now that we have the council? **** you
D: People aren't fleeing the terminus systems in droves after the above? **** you
E: No trace? Then what were those video feeds and the giant ****ing rocket engines? **** you
F: They're kidnapping people to make into slurpees to feed to a human reaper? **** you
G: Not only is there a final boss, but the final boss is a giant Terminator? **** you

In conclusion, whoever was responsible for the main story: do better next time. Like, a lot better.

Note that my views were heavily influenced by this piece, and that I've yet to read the thread. Which I shall now do.

EDIT: Oh, the minigames? Did no one at Bioware play this game before release? After two planets I'd had enough scanning. So I downloaded a trainer and gave myself all the resources I could ever need. My only regret is that I didn't do the same for credits--hacking and bypassing were pretty dull, too.

[NGTM-1R]

Consider the first game proved the futility of trying to stop Shepard from doing anything, of course the Alliance doesn't react. What are they going to do, try to arrest the galaxy's ultimate badass?

Similarly the fact you don't really grasp the full horror of what the Reapers were doing is just silly. This is straight up Lovecraftian horror and all you can do is complain? Either you're not thinking it through or you have no taste.

[General Battuta]

I actually think he's write about the ending. The side quests were fantasmic, but the ending cheapened the Reavers from Lovecraftian horrors to merely Borg-level SF villains. And that final boss was stupid.

[Colonol Dekker]

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.
 
 
 
Those guys were dicks.

[NGTM-1R]

I actually think he's write about the ending. The side quests were fantasmic, but the ending cheapened the Reavers from Lovecraftian horrors to merely Borg-level SF villains. And that final boss was stupid.

The slurpees comment suggests otherwise. And while that is part of the ending, it's a suitably horrifying part if you consider we've discovered why the Reapers keep coming back, and it puts some of Soverign's comments from the first game in a rather new and creepy perspective.

[General Battuta]

I actually think he's right about the ending. The side quests were fantasmic, but the ending cheapened the Reavers from Lovecraftian horrors to merely Borg-level SF villains. And that final boss was stupid.

The slurpees comment suggests otherwise. And while that is part of the ending, it's a suitably horrifying part if you consider we've discovered why the Reapers keep coming back, and it puts some of Soverign's comments from the first game in a rather new and creepy perspective.

The presentation of the twist was really bad, particularly the suggestion that the mimicry of the source species on the part of the new Reaper was involuntary. It was comical rather than horrifying - a Reaper embryo would have been scary, but a giant Terminator was not - and it actually undermined the menace established by Sovereign in the first game because it gave the Reapers motivations rather like the Borg.

I spoke to one of the Mass Effect 2 writers who actually wrote EDI's dialogue. He'd originally written that scene with a much more 'hard', much more frightening notion, i.e. that the human colonists were being pureed and uploaded to a Reaper serving as a giant 'mainframe' for a simulation of the whole human species. He left BioWare amicably about halfway through development, and at some later point, this was converted to the 'soft SF' notion that the humans were simply the physical building blocks and for some reason the Reaper mimicked their forms.

I loved most of the game, right up until the slow camera pan up the tentacular bottom of the Reaper embryo...and then it cut to the full form and I started laughing.

Fortunately I think Bioware pays enough attention to fan reaction that they'll be fixing this up in Mass Effect 3.

Also, I seem to be getting steadily more dyslexic (write/right?)

[StarSlayer]

The uploading into the Reaper Wikipedia idea actually would have been pretty awesome.  I found the giant T-800 to be a little silly.  Personally I liked the multi system side quests and the Blade Runner esq Samara side quest.  I really wouldn't mind having some sorta spin off doing multi system investigatory stuff like that.  "Adventures of Gianna Parasini "

[General Battuta]

I agree. The game was nearly 100% unadulterated awesome up to that reveal, and so I'm willing to forgive it the Reapernator...just as long as they recognize the mistake and fix 'er up for Mass Effect 3.

I'm a bit worried by the loss of this one writer, as he did Legion (who was awesome), EDI, and Thane (who was not as awesome but still had a great side mission.) But I trust Bioware.

[CP5670]

I haven't finished this game yet, but so far I agree with the things mxlm said. This is an outstanding game but it does have some flaws.

There are a number of holes in the main plot and the game almost seems to retcon Cerberus and ignores what happened with them in ME1. It's also a little strange how easily you pick up squad mates, with some of them having no apparent reason for joining you. The plot seems too focused on recruiting the teammates and doing their missions, and I still haven't done much actual work with them. So far, the main quest has lacked the "epic" feel that ME1 had and is also quite short from what I'm reading. However, the squad-related missions and minor quests are excellent and could have made a game in themselves.

The gameplay and combat are much better than in ME1, although far from perfect. You have to approach fights somewhat more carefully and can no longer just run through enemies anymore. The squad mates are still useless at shooting things, but you rely on their special abilities a lot more than in ME1. It's good that they got rid of the Mako parts, although the scanning minigame is equally bad and is made especially tedious by the low mouse sensitivity (even with the scanner upgrade).

Like ME1, adding time speedup keys is essential and makes the non-combat parts of the game much more fun. I added in ghost and walk keys as well, as you frequently get stuck in level geometry and there is no other way to get out when that happens. I also removed all the irritating loading movies and replaced them with empty ones. The game continues to play them even after it's done loading, and they are unskippable. This reduces the map loading times from around 15 seconds to 2-3 seconds.

[mxlm]

Similarly the fact you don't really grasp the full horror of what the Reapers were doing is just silly. This is straight up Lovecraftian horror and all you can do is complain? Either you're not thinking it through or you have no taste.

The full horror? Look, when

Spoiler:

Chambers got melted in front of me, I was pissed. Wow, they're melting people, that's ****ed up--but note, my initial thought was they were using people to make into Collectors (I thought the stuff happening to her skin indicated Collectorification, not melting, and I was confused as to why she fell out of frame). And while that would have been rather derivative of the Borg, it'd be infinitely preferable to "We melt people to build Cthulhu." That's not Lovecraftian horror. Like, at all.

You could argue that "Uses people as basic construction materials," is kind of a parallel to "uses people to wake up old sleeping dudes," but it's...not really the same.

I also note with interest that you're not offering a defense of anything relating to Cerberus, including the blowing up your ship to give it to you again thing (well, I guess the badass comment could be intended in a vaguely serious matter, but I have my doubts).

[Scotty]

 

Cerberus never blew up your ship.  That was a Collector cruiser.

[mxlm]

Right, the writers blew up your ship so they could give you an identical one. Which ties in to Cerberus.

[General Battuta]

Similarly the fact you don't really grasp the full horror of what the Reapers were doing is just silly. This is straight up Lovecraftian horror and all you can do is complain? Either you're not thinking it through or you have no taste.

The full horror? Look, when

Spoiler:

Chambers got melted in front of me, I was pissed. Wow, they're melting people, that's ****ed up--but note, my initial thought was they were using people to make into Collectors (I thought the stuff happening to her skin indicated Collectorification, not melting, and I was confused as to why she fell out of frame). And while that would have been rather derivative of the Borg, it'd be infinitely preferable to "We melt people to build Cthulhu." That's not Lovecraftian horror. Like, at all.

You could argue that "Uses people as basic construction materials," is kind of a parallel to "uses people to wake up old sleeping dudes," but it's...not really the same.

I also note with interest that you're not offering a defense of anything relating to Cerberus, including the blowing up your ship to give it to you again thing (well, I guess the badass comment could be intended in a vaguely serious matter, but I have my doubts).

Spoiler:

You didn't save Chambers? You suck!

[NGTM-1R]

The full horror? Look, when

Spoiler:

Chambers got melted in front of me, I was pissed. Wow, they're melting people, that's ****ed up--but note, my initial thought was they were using people to make into Collectors (I thought the stuff happening to her skin indicated Collectorification, not melting, and I was confused as to why she fell out of frame).

Spoiler:

So basically you're saying you completely misinterpreted both the sidequest that shows what the Collectors are and the revelation on their ship. That's rather...dense, of you.

Spoiler:

And while that would have been rather derivative of the Borg, it'd be infinitely preferable to "We melt people to build Cthulhu." That's not Lovecraftian horror. Like, at all.

You could argue that "Uses people as basic construction materials," is kind of a parallel to "uses people to wake up old sleeping dudes," but it's...not really the same.

Ah, I see you're not thinking it through then.

We are each of us a nation.

And so they are. Each of the Reapers is the entirety of a sentient galaxy-fairing species condensed into one entity. Considering what even the homeless Quarians can accomplish, that makes them pretty Lovecraftian right there. Before, we only had Soverign's word on them being truly Lovecraftian entities, and Soverign does not exactly constitute a reliable narrator. Now we have absolute proof that a single Reaper is essentially a godlike force beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend, because we know how Reapers are born. And there are hundreds of them.

That little revelation highlights in incredible, glorious detail how completely and utterly screwed you are.

I also note with interest that you're not offering a defense of anything relating to Cerberus, including the blowing up your ship to give it to you again thing (well, I guess the badass comment could be intended in a vaguely serious matter, but I have my doubts).

Cerberus did not blow up your ship. Did you even actually play this game? You're not getting the plot points straight at all.

Besides, what is there to defend? Cerberus brought you back from the ****ing dead, gave you a ship, a crew, and a mission that's for the good of humanity. Yes, you've shot at them before, and they shot back, but one of the conditions of military life is that sometimes you must work with people who you would cheerfully kill otherwise, for the good of the greater whole. This is one of those times.

Besides, I was addressing the Alliance's lack of reaction to your return. The ultimate badass is not a jest; several people in the game will point out that this is in fact the case. ("Things explode around you, Shepard.") And by the time the Alliance actually knows for a fact that you're still alive, you probably have the protection of the Alliance counselor. AND you're still the freaking hero of the Citadel and pursuing you would piss off a lot of people.

I also think the fact you were complaining the Alliance was reacting to the disappearing colonies is both naive about how politics actually works, and naive about how the game world actually works as well, as you apparently read none of the background materials on what was actually going on and where the colonies were located.

And that the Alliance reacting would be ****ting all over how ME1's endgame played out, or are you going to complain about that too?

[mxlm]

Let me start by stating that rereading my previous interaction with you, NGTM, I was a little douchey, so I'd like to apologize for that. I hope I can avoid being more douchey.

Ah, I see you're not thinking it through then.

We are each of us a nation.

And so they are. Each of the Reapers is the entirety of a sentient galaxy-fairing species condensed into one entity. Considering what even the homeless Quarians can accomplish, that makes them pretty Lovecraftian right there. Before, we only had Soverign's word on them being truly Lovecraftian entities, and Soverign does not exactly constitute a reliable narrator. Now we have absolute proof that a single Reaper is essentially a godlike force beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend, because we know how Reapers are born. And there are hundreds of the

Ah. You're right (I'd mostly forgotten everything from ME1, even though I played it only a few months ago. That's how my brain works when it comes to retaining info from entertainment. Usually. Ask me about Battlemech designs from 3025, though...). Okay, that's better. However, Space Terminator is still a poor choice, as is having you shoot space terminator in the eye.

Cerberus did not blow up your ship. Did you even actually play this game? You're not getting the plot points straight at all.

Besides, what is there to defend? Cerberus brought you back from the ****ing dead, gave you a ship, a crew, and a mission that's for the good of humanity. Yes, you've shot at them before, and they shot back, but one of the conditions of military life is that sometimes you must work with people who you would cheerfully kill otherwise, for the good of the greater whole. This is one of those times.

Besides, I was addressing the Alliance's lack of reaction to your return. The ultimate badass is not a jest; several people in the game will point out that this is in fact the case. ("Things explode around you, Shepard.") And by the time the Alliance actually knows for a fact that you're still alive, you probably have the protection of the Alliance counselor. AND you're still the freaking hero of the Citadel and pursuing you would piss off a lot of people.

I also think the fact you were complaining the Alliance was reacting to the disappearing colonies is both naive about how politics actually works, and naive about how the game world actually works as well, as you apparently read none of the background materials on what was actually going on and where the colonies were located.

And that the Alliance reacting would be ****ting all over how ME1's endgame played out, or are you going to complain about that too?

The ship blowing up thing was a reference of the writing and how it related to Cerberus, actually. They (that is, the writers/devs/whoever) blow up your ship, and then give you an identical one with mostly the same crew. They kill you, and then bring you back mostly the same (y'know when you see Shep getting rezzed? I was so sure one of those electronic looking things that got implanted in you would explain why the hell I was okay with working with Cerberus). And that needs to be explained because as I recall (admittedly, not well) ME1, Cerberus was Pure Eeeevil. Teaming up with them is rather like teaming up with the Nazis or the Khmer Rouge of choice. I find the argument that if Cerberus is too evil to give the station too then they're too evil to work with rather persuasive. I presume you disagree; would you mind explaining why you do?

As well, the way they handle the station; you can blow it up, or you can give it Cerberus. You can't give it to the Alliance, or the Council, or your friend Dan, or Dan's pet dog. And if the situation is bad enough that you have to team up with Cerberus, why isn't it bad enough to give the station to Cerberus (the article asserts that everyone's okay with you blowing up the station, including Miranda. I can't say this is correct; no one objected when I did so, but no one approved, either, and I didn't do the 'play after victory' thing, so I didn't get any post-mission interaction, but I assume it is)? Great, you stopped one Reaper. There're plenty more, and maybe studying the station would help. Like, a lot.

Which is to say, the setup, all of the setup, is rather...forced. And unnecessary. And it doesn't seem likely this was the original plan; as the article says, if it was, why didn't we get allusions to TIM in ME1 (Battuta? Insight from your acquaintance?). The resolution? That's pretty forced too. I mean, I get that they like binary choices given their 'will affect next game' thing (imagine if Bloodlines had a sequel, and the events and choices in Bloodlines affected the sequel), but...those weren't very good choices.

You're right that I didn't read very many (any?) codices; I didn't like ME1 enough to do that. Read a bunch in DA:O, but even then, nowhere near the majority of them. So, alright, I'll grant there may be a valid reason for a lack of response. Would you mind explaining it to me?

I'm confused about your final statement. In my recollection, I managed to save the Council, get a human on the council, and generally make humans, like, awesome. Given that, how would the Alliance reacting have **** all over the endgame?

[General Battuta]

Ah, I see you're not thinking it through then.

We are each of us a nation.

And so they are. Each of the Reapers is the entirety of a sentient galaxy-fairing species condensed into one entity. Considering what even the homeless Quarians can accomplish, that makes them pretty Lovecraftian right there. Before, we only had Soverign's word on them being truly Lovecraftian entities, and Soverign does not exactly constitute a reliable narrator. Now we have absolute proof that a single Reaper is essentially a godlike force beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend, because we know how Reapers are born. And there are hundreds of them.

That little revelation highlights in incredible, glorious detail how completely and utterly screwed you are.

That was the original intent, but they failed to accomplish it.

What they did was this: take aim at that Platonic ideal you described, misfire, and fall into the muck of old SF tropes.

The story as originally written (uploading) was going to accomplish that. Instead, they produced an angle which made the Reapers seem limited and dependent on organics, unable to control their own reproduction.

The version that made it into the final never actually said any of what you concluded. It simply described Reaper reproduction as dependent on liquefying a target species and building a Reaper out of it, with the possibility that the Reapers couldn't control the resulting design.

Now, I think this was meant as setup for an eventual revelation that the Reapers are literally each the gestalt of an entire species, but the original memory uploading concept accomplished that much better. (I imagine that internally, they still think of it as 'memory uploading', but cut that or changed it to simple goo-factory because they thought it'd either give away too much of that eventual reveal, or it was too hard to explain.) There's even concept art for a normal, cuttlefish-esque 'Human Reaper' with a freaky human skull motif, instead of the Terminator we got.

I'm guessing that they couldn't figure out a good 'fight' to go with that style of embryo, and so made it humanoid instead. In the process they threw up a giggle-worthy final boss with a Massive Weak Point and the uncomfortably funny suggestion that this giant robot thing was going to Superman around through space with the rest of the Reapers.

They've got a chance to retcon it for ME3 - and heck I've exchanged enough words with the Mass Effect writers to think that was they intended all along, they just gloriously ****ed up at conveying it here - but after the uninspiringly easy Suicide Mission, that poorly-executed final sequence made ME2 a game with an ending nowhere near as good as its middle.

Now, the intent is there. If what you described in your quoted post had happened, it would've been great. But they just ****ed it up enough to make it funny instead of scary. What they needed to do was having all the colonists uploaded into a Reaper embryo that was being constructed by normal means.

In short I think that what you're describing is what they intended or intend to do in the future. But they didn't present it here, or if they tried to, they did a really bad job of it.