[The E]

I sort of said to myself that I would try to stay out of the whole gay-marriage-in-the-US debate, because I sort of think the whole issue is silly.

But then, Boing Boing posts this: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/02/same-sex-marriage-is.html

which leads to http://tongodeon.livejournal.com/880030.html

and my day was practically made. It's just too funny to not spread around.

[NGTM-1R]

Well, it was never a secret that the judge wanted to know what the deal was before he ruled. He hit them with that the day the trial opened.

The amazing thing is they weren't able to bull**** something up before the hearings started.

[Locutus of Borg]

It is a silly issue, because it is just that; an issue.

I want to puke when I hear about religious practices and beliefs poking into our government. Soon the United States will become a country not unlike the ones people fled from to create it.

[iamzack]

The defense experts were a complete joke. They only found two who would testify for them, and there was a third one that the plaintiffs called up as a witness for *our* side. XD Of course the two they did get to testify did more to damage their case than help anyone.

[Bobboau]

heh, this might actually work out alright after all. I never expected the opposition to make an absolute jackass mockery of them selves like that, if they keep this up they'll succeed where the liberals have failed for the last decade in attaching a stigma of 'idiot' to the anti-gay-marriage position this might just put them into the same category as creationists in the public's eye.

[carbine7]

I think the opposition has made it clear that they really "don't know" what case they're fighting. Looks like they planned to just show up and win by default. Just sad, really, that they can't even prepare for a huge trial.

[iamzack]

No wonder they fought so hard to keep the thing from being broadcast. They claimed it was because their witnesses thought the big bad gays were gonna attack them oh nooooo

[Woolie Wool]

heh, this might actually work out alright after all. I never expected the opposition to make an absolute jackass mockery of them selves like that, if they keep this up they'll succeed where the liberals have failed for the last decade in attaching a stigma of 'idiot' to the anti-gay-marriage position this might just put them into the same category as creationists in the public's eye.

Do you have any idea how many creationists there still are in the public? That particular brand of bull**** has a long way to go before it's finally buried.

[Bobboau]

yeah, but you don't have to go far to see them made the butt of a joke on a late night talk show.

[TrashMan]

It is a silly issue, because it is just that; an issue.

I want to puke when I hear about religious practices and beliefs poking into our government. Soon the United States will become a country not unlike the ones people fled from to create it.

Beliefs will ALLWAYS poke into the government, because all peopel belive in something. It may be religion, in a specific ideology or somehing else. Government is composed of people. People wahve their wants are views.

You're basicly asking the impossible.
I did notcice on thing tough - why do you think that only religious folk may have something agaisnt gay marriage?

[General Battuta]

Because that's the core reason for opposition to gay marriage.

There's no rational reason, either data-driven or scientific, to oppose gay marriage. Homosexuality occurs in hundreds of species, and it's evolutionarily important.

[The E]

You're basicly asking the impossible.
I did notcice on thing tough - why do you think that only religious folk may have something agaisnt gay marriage?

Note that this entire hilariousness stems from the inability of the defendants to find rational reasons.

[Herra Tohtori]

I did notcice on thing tough - why do you think that only religious folk may have something agaisnt gay marriage?

I certainly don't. I am quite sure there are non-religious conservative people who oppose same sex marriage simply because it's against their ideological background, but the point is that they can't find rational reasons why same sex marriages would be harmful either.

Tradition goes in the same category as religious reasons in this case.

[iamzack]

I certainly have never known any nonreligious homophobes. In fact, most (maybe all) of the people I know who went from homophobe to nonhomophobe also went from very religious to less religious or nonreligious.

[Herra Tohtori]

I certainly have never known any nonreligious homophobes. In fact, most (maybe all) of the people I know who went from homophobe to nonhomophobe also went from very religious to less religious or nonreligious.

Fair enough, but correlation doesn't prove causation.

I could post historical examples of non-religion based discrimination against homosexuals or other groups of people that supposedly offended the principles of one ism or another, but I don't feel like Godwining the thread.

[Blue Lion]

I certainly have never known any nonreligious homophobes. In fact, most (maybe all) of the people I know who went from homophobe to nonhomophobe also went from very religious to less religious or nonreligious.

Fair enough, but correlation doesn't prove causation.

I could post historical examples of non-religion based discrimination against homosexuals or other groups of people that supposedly offended the principles of one ism or another, but I don't feel like Godwining the thread.

Not to disagree, but I think almost all historical examples would probably be religious in nature simply due to the religiousness of the society at the time.

[TrashMan]

Because that's the core reason for opposition to gay marriage.

There's no rational reason, either data-driven or scientific, to oppose gay marriage. Homosexuality occurs in hundreds of species, and it's evolutionarily important.

I disagree with the last statement. Evolutionary important? How?

Now I don't have anything against gay marriage, but I don' see anything useful in "gayness" as a whole that's worth preserving. No offense to anyone, k?

[iamzack]

I don't see anything useful about Christianity that's worth preserving either, so I guess we're even, eh?

[General Battuta]

Because that's the core reason for opposition to gay marriage.

There's no rational reason, either data-driven or scientific, to oppose gay marriage. Homosexuality occurs in hundreds of species, and it's evolutionarily important.

I disagree with the last statement. Evolutionary important? How?

Now I don't have anything against gay marriage, but I don' see anything useful in "gayness" as a whole that's worth preserving. No offense to anyone, k?

Kin selection. Inclusive fitness. It works on a similar principle to the eusocial principles that drive ant colonies, or alarm calls in ground squirrels, or nest-helping behaviors in young Florida scrub jays.

The idea is that you get more virtual offspring by helping out your parents and siblings than you get offspring by trying to reproduce yourself. Since you're not using up resources for your own kids, more of your siblings and siblings' children survive, and you can help them grow. Since your siblings share half your genetic material, and their kids share a quarter, you're basically getting free 'virtual offspring' by halves and quarters if you help them out.

The relevant equation is rB > C. Homosexuality will be favored whenever the fitness benefit of homosexual behavior (B) multiplied by the coefficient of relationship with the behavior recipient (r) is greater than the fitness cost to the organism.

Transsexuality is also natural and important in many species.

There are a number of other major reasons, too. Read this for a good overview.

[TrashMan]

I don't see anything useful about Christianity that's worth preserving either, so I guess we're even, eh?

Whatever floats your boat.
Altough technicly there already is a volontary way to get rid of religion...it's called a different way of thinking. It's out there, free for the taking. You won't see me stopping you or anyone else from taking it.


@Gen Battuta - sorry, I just don't buy any of that.