[Nemesis6]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Warning: 48 minutes long, but this is the kind of info every single person should know, but unfortunately don't.
It's absolutely priceless advice, especially for you Americans. You have more rights than we do here in Europe, so you should appreciate and exercise them, lest you lose them... 

[The E]

Except that, you know, noone is going to force you to incriminate yourself around here either (here == Germany, for me).

[Nemesis6]

Except that, you know, noone is going to force you to incriminate yourself around here either (here == Germany, for me).

Right, because if you don't talk to them, they can't use your words against you. Police don't need to force you to do anything, by the way - They rely on an ill-deserved respect from the public, and global, gigantuous misconception about what police do, which is why people talk to them; people think that talking to the police can help them, when in reality, there is no way it can. The video addresses exactly this point, and sends it crashing down in flames.

[General Battuta]

I have to say I'm inherently suspicious of a blanket statement like that.

[Mars]

Except that, you know, noone is going to force you to incriminate yourself around here either (here == Germany, for me).

Right, because if you don't talk to them, they can't use your words against you. Police don't need to force you to do anything, by the way - They rely on an ill-deserved respect from the public, and global, gigantuous misconception about what police do, which is why people talk to them; people think that talking to the police can help them, when in reality, there is no way it can. The video addresses exactly this point, and sends it crashing down in flames.

Or maybe they're not nearly as bad as the paranoid delusions people come up with.

[iamzack]

Safer to assume they are. Never know which cop is going to beat you silly for lulz.

[Mars]

I have in fact been beaten by a cop.

I fully deserved it, and it was that or taze me.

[Nemesis6]

Except that, you know, noone is going to force you to incriminate yourself around here either (here == Germany, for me).

Right, because if you don't talk to them, they can't use your words against you. Police don't need to force you to do anything, by the way - They rely on an ill-deserved respect from the public, and global, gigantuous misconception about what police do, which is why people talk to them; people think that talking to the police can help them, when in reality, there is no way it can. The video addresses exactly this point, and sends it crashing down in flames.

Or maybe they're not nearly as bad as the paranoid delusions people come up with.

Right, because the police officer who threw me into a car, beat me and threw on the ground for absolutely nothing whatsoever was actually a good guy. Drop the condescending ****, will you?  
I used to think like you, but then I started reading up on all stuff, and sure enough, the exact sentiments I had ridiculed people for, just like you do, I experienced first hand to be true - That the police are psychos.

[General Battuta]

While I'll be the first to agree that things can go horribly wrong with law enforcement, I don't think that 'nothing good can come from talking to cops'.

[iamzack]

Nothing good has ever come from talking to cops in my experience. I dont doubt most cops were at some point good people. But, power, cliches, etc.

[Mars]

Except that, you know, noone is going to force you to incriminate yourself around here either (here == Germany, for me).

Right, because if you don't talk to them, they can't use your words against you. Police don't need to force you to do anything, by the way - They rely on an ill-deserved respect from the public, and global, gigantuous misconception about what police do, which is why people talk to them; people think that talking to the police can help them, when in reality, there is no way it can. The video addresses exactly this point, and sends it crashing down in flames.

Or maybe they're not nearly as bad as the paranoid delusions people come up with.

Right, because the police officer who threw me into a car, beat me and threw on the ground for absolutely nothing whatsoever was actually a good guy. Drop the condescending ****, will you?  
I used to think like you, but then I started reading up on all stuff, and sure enough, the exact sentiments I had ridiculed people for, just like you do, I experienced first hand to be true - That the police are psychos.

There are definitely some serious problems in law enforcement: the number of people behind bars demonstrate this. However, the idea that all police are out to get you and arrest you, so you should never talk to them is paranoid, silly, and counterproductive to any functional state.

[The E]

Confirmation bias much? Your experience is a) your own only, b) not really applicable outside the US, and c) only your own.

From their reputation, american police are a lot "harder" than the police around here, so I am a bit suspect about that. My personal encounters with the police are limited to one stop-and-search incident involving them suspecting me to have drugs in my pockets (A rather painless incident I was able to talk myself out of because I was, in fact, able to bamboozle the officers with my eloquence and obvious not-drugged-ness).

Now, I am not saying that my experience is in any way applicable to the entirety of all possible encounters one can have with the german police, but there you go.

That being said, deprogramming yourself of the automatic memetically determined reflex to tell the police something when they ask you, is much, much harder than it sounds (example in the vid, where the Officer asked about speeding on the highway).

[Nemesis6]

Gah, these quote trains are becoming long now...  

There are definitely some serious problems in law enforcement: the number of people behind bars demonstrate this. However, the idea that all police are out to get you and arrest you, so you should never talk to them is paranoid, silly, and counterproductive to any functional state.

There's definitely a case to be made for the claim that all police are the problem. Initially it seems absurd -- If some police officer does something wrong, that's just ONE guy, right? They're not all like that...?

Think about this: What happened to me was witnessed by all the other officers, who stood idly by right beside me while their psychopath comrade beat me, while I offered absolutely no physical or verbal resistance. This is called the Blue Code of Silence, it's when police refuse to incriminate, or otherwise challenge the decisions of their fellow officers -- One hand washes the other. And this is not some conspiracy or paranoid delusion, this happens every single time a police officer gets out of line - Their colleagues will not report them, and hence become complicit in their crime. In other words, they are part of it.

[iamzack]

Police are rarely held accountable for their actions. That's the number one reason I don't trust them. I don't know if any particular officer is a good guy or a bad guy, but I do know that if he's a bad guy, I won't really have any recourse, so it's best to avoid him altogether.

[General Battuta]

The Blue Code is a huge problem, and a major issue with police culture.

[The E]

Police robots FTW!



Err, no, wait......

Point being:
As long as we have humans, with all the group behaviour mechanisms that humans have doing the police work, especially with extremely obvious signs segregating "us" and "them", you will get some form of Blue Code.

Designing a perfectly unbiased system to arbitrate disputes is impossible. Not difficult, impossible, given our current understanding of ourselves.

[NGTM-1R]

global, gigantuous misconception about what police do

They arrest you for breaking the law. If you resist an officer they are allowed to use force to take you into custody.

Therefore don't **** with the cops. If you don't give them a reason, they don't bother you, much like everyone else in life. If they do bother you, do what they say.

[iamzack]

Well, they can also charge you with resisting arrest when they didn't have a reason to arrest you in the first place. That doesn't strike you as ****ed up?

[General Battuta]

I will clarify my earlier resistance.

I believe that it is a very good idea to approach and cooperate with police when reporting a crime.

If the police approach you, however, I do to a degree agree with nemesis6 that you should not talk to them. I believe this also encompasses NGTM-1R's post, because if the police do approach you, they think they have a reason to give you trouble, and you should do as little as you can to help that happen.

[Blue Lion]

I always tell the cops everything. Since I do nothing illegal (oh wait, I do speed sometimes), what's the difference?

If the police are corrupt, it really doesn't matter what I say, does it?