Poll

What was the best (Single Player) RPG of the Decade?

Final Fantasy X (AKA The last great Final Fantasy)
3 (3.8%)
Crono Cross (Why did Square never make a sequel again?)
2 (2.6%)
Morrowind
5 (6.4%)
Oblivion
3 (3.8%)
KOTOR I
17 (21.8%)
KOTOR II
4 (5.1%)
Baldur's Gate II (I never loved it, but I understand why someone else would)
14 (17.9%)
Dragon Age: Origins
8 (10.3%)
NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer (Humor me, I loved it)
1 (1.3%)
Anachronox (Everyone forgets this one)
2 (2.6%)
Mass Effect (Personally I don't think it belongs up here, but whatever)
8 (10.3%)
Fallout 3 (Ditto)
2 (2.6%)
Other
6 (7.7%)
Arcanum
3 (3.8%)

Total Members Voted: 78

Author Topic: Best RPG of the Decade  (Read 11495 times)

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Offline Sarafan

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Baldur's Gate 2 (mind you, I'm considering BG2 + Throne of Baal). KOTOR is great but it relies on a major twist which while great it kills the replay value of the game and there are times in which the game is just dull because what the game provides you to do to further the game is dull (ex: the one that Turambar mentioned, the Sandral/Matale feud, I ended up getting them to kill each other because of how annoying they were) and there are only two ways to solve things, the light and dark side options.

KOTOR 2 was a barely coherent attempted rehash of the first game (yet another bunch of Sith lords who want to rule the galaxy again) that did not accomplish anything at all and I consider it to be one of the worst RPGs I've played. I especially hated the sith lords who're supposed to be the bad guys here, you spend the entire game hearing about how badass and how evil and powerful with the force these guys are and when you finally face them you kill Nihilus like he was nothing but a normal enemy and the other you just have to say a few words and he dies, c'mon!

I consider Baldur's Gate 2 the best because of its storyline, the main plot is very well worked with no plotholes (Jon Irenicus is one of the best villains I've seen in games), all the NPCs you can get have their own nonlinear plots which are far more interesting than what you have on both KOTORs, the quests have a lot more options on how to do them. The graphics were good and I hear people consider it the best because its faithfull to the D&D system but I never played D&D and consider the game to be quite simple which is also a plus.

FFX I also consider to be one of the best because not just the game itself was loads of fun but it had, mark my words, a ORIGINAL thing, the grid system. FFX  threw the conventional leveling up system every bloody RPG has out the window and made something completely different, the grid system meant you could advance your character when YOU wanted and not just after a set number of XP was reached. The game just lacked two things one is the side quests but thats because Square doesnt know how to make side quests and I see this being proven every new FF they release (this started with FF7), dogding lightning god knows how many times and facing monster who are insanely stronger than the last bosses are pointless and boring things, they are not side quests.

The second was that the last boss was pathetic, it depended on how strong your Aeons were and since I pretty much never used them it was that easy to beat.

 

Offline tlc337

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KotOR for me.  But, I didn't play Baldur's Gate.  I'm not even a Star Wars fan.  In fact, I'd say that KotOR is better than any recent Star Wars fiction.  IMO, HK-47 was one of the best characters created in this generation.

But, I don't think anything is ever going to top Ultima VII for me, personally.

 

Offline headdie

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KotOR for me.  But, I didn't play Baldur's Gate.  I'm not even a Star Wars fan.  In fact, I'd say that KotOR is better than any recent Star Wars fiction.  IMO, HK-47 was one of the best characters created in this generation.

But, I don't think anything is ever going to top Ultima VII for me, personally.

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Morrowind was the most creatively interesting of the options, showing the most depth of thought, most creative effort, and by far the most fleshed-out world. The mechanics, however, are not very inspiring. (Oblivion was Morrowind without the creative effort and so sucked in pretty much every dimension.)

DA:O is beautifully voiceacted, but a straight up Golden Age of RPGs title, clunky AD&D 2 mechanics and all. (Admittedly the tabletop system I play isn't a vast improvement over such mechanics, but I know what White Wolf has done for the industry since I got into Rifts, thanks, and if you're going for Golden Age mechanics you could at least be copying Rolemaster; it's not going to be at all clunky once automated and it's much more deep.) It is however wonderfully rendered and fairly deeply developed.

KOTOR and its successor get penalized for crappy voiceacting and animation. They look clunky. To top it off, they are clunky in mechanics. They did do their own world-development aside from drawing on general Star Wars background, but not enough of it to be truly compelling. They also invalidated whole character classes pretty quickly by screwing the non-Jedi. KOTOR2 at least acknowledged the damage it did to your companions by letting you make them Jedi eventually and thereby undo it.

ME1/ME2 are the first real shooter RPGs, and as such, I don't feel it fair to include them in the same realm as the others; they're far too mechanically different (no KOTOR is not a shooter, it's a lightsabers-only game and you know it; similarly FO3 is not a shooter, VATS is a direct destruction of shooter mechanics). Nevertheless, they're typically voiceacted well enough to pass muster, very deeply developed, and offer fairly compelling main story with the most solid presentation and writing of the games here.

No Baldur's Gate doesn't count, they were borrowing Forgotten Realms stuff wholesale you jackass! It gets absolutely no points for developing world, backstory, or original game mechanics, and can't. It doesn't belong in the same list as titles that had to or did build stuff from the ground up.

I haven't played a JRPG since the PC port of FFVII, so I will offer no opinions there.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 06:48:09 pm by NGTM-1R »
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Offline headdie

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No Baldur's Gate doesn't count, they were borrowing Forgotten Realms stuff wholesale you jackass! It gets absolutely no points for developing world, backstory, or original game mechanics, and can't. It doesn't belong in the same list as titles that had to or did build stuff from the ground up.

that would be because it is a licensed product in a storyline that is very well established already.

what makes a good RPG? and that question can be answered in many ways, just because you dont think a game is good dosent mean that id dosnt deserve to be in the list at the end of the day BG is a very popular game which played well, had a good story and looked beautiful in its day.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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that would be because it is a licensed product in a storyline that is very well established already.

You seem to be under some strange impression I wasn't aware of that, when that was my point.

You can't rightly compare it to other games on the list which designed their worlds from the ground up; it is inherently uneven. Now granted I don't think it was any good at all, but I didn't even delve into that, though by some weird interpretation you seem to think I did.
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Offline headdie

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that would be because it is a licensed product in a storyline that is very well established already.

You seem to be under some strange impression I wasn't aware of that, when that was my point.

I dont know what you know about Forgotten Realms but it is all based on a variation of dungeons and dragons and is a story set with maps and a chronicled time line that goes way beyond the period depicted in the computer games
Quote
You can't rightly compare it to other games on the list which designed their worlds from the ground up; it is inherently uneven. Now granted I don't think it was any good at all, but I didn't even delve into that, though by some weird interpretation you seem to think I did.

by that, NWNI/II, KOTORI/II, Morrowind and Oblivion are out as they are all based on a preexisting stories  NWN of course being, Forgotten Realms, KOTOR being Starwars set not long after the war with Exar Kun and Morrowind/Oblivion being continuations of the elder scroll series
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Offline Angelus

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Kotor all the way, followed by Morrowind and Baldursgate II ( the list would change abit if there were more titles to choose from ).
Kotor II was quite ****e story wise but technically better, it would have been far better to port the Kotor one storyline to Kotor II and release it as Game of the year edition.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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I dont know what you know about Forgotten Realms but it is all based on a variation of dungeons and dragons and is a story set with maps and a chronicled time line that goes way beyond the period depicted in the computer games

I know. Hell, I made knowledgeable references to at least three tabletop RPG systems, I'd think it's obvious I probably would.

by that, NWNI/II, KOTORI/II, Morrowind and Oblivion are out as they are all based on a preexisting stories  NWN of course being, Forgotten Realms, KOTOR being Starwars set not long after the war with Exar Kun and Morrowind/Oblivion being continuations of the elder scroll series.

Mere sequeling is not sufficent argument to rule out Morrowind/Oblivion from the lineup as being the mere 3rd/4th sequels are in no way a match for the fifty-odd gamebooks and twenty-odd novels that I can think of which were dedicated to Forgotten Realms. Also on point, Morrowind set up a totally new location with new politics and geography, and was the first real exploration in depth of Tamriel and itself established the better part of Elder Scrolls lore. Whether it was the first in the series is therefore immaterial; it was the first to really build the world up.

You might however have an argument about Oblivion which covered territory already visited briefly in Daggerfall and rode on Morrowind's coattails for fleshing-out.

NWNI/II built their own stories and fleshed out their own backgrounds in ways that Baldur's Gate never even attempted; they were set and mostly self-contained in locations with self-contained casts that were previously obscure/not even mentioned. (With the admitted exception of NWN1's second expansion Hordes of the Underdark.) I have scads of Forgotten Realms background material sitting around and there's very little about Neverwinter in it at all.

KOTOR built new planets and new characters and a new backdrop (Kun's barely even mentioned, Revan is the game's backstory). Admittedly, none of these were very good, but it did build new ones, and it was the first effort to mechanize and computerize a Star Wars style of gameplay.

BG was set in well-known locales that have whole gamebooks devoted to some of them, presented characters playing to type, and its backstory was deeply engrossed with the backstory of Forgotten Realms so that the two were basically one and the same.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 07:39:47 pm by NGTM-1R »
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Offline Mr. Vega

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KOTOR1 was an utterly enthralling experience the first time through, but having played through it twice more I can see the boring stereotypes present in most of the characters, the moments of boredom and poor design, and the ultimate banality of the story itself. Whenever I think of it now the first adjective that pops to my mind is "entertaining", and not "great".

Morrowind, during my first play-through, struck me as a fascinating, frustrating mess of a game before I began to understand and appreciate it's unique style and pacing - of course the story moves along in fits and starts, that's what it would actually be like to be that character, who had to make a living in a dangerous, difficult environment at the same time he/she was following Caius's orders and gradually discovering who he/she really was. By the time I slew Dagoth Ur I thought it was without doubt one of the five greatest games ever made, and my opinion hasn't changed with subsequent playthroughs. But I will admit that much of my opinion of Morrowind's greatness comes from the way I interpreted the main story. As an atheist, I interpreted the creation of the Tribunal as a rebellion against the order of the universe, that reduced the mortals of Tamriel to the playthings of the Daedra Lords and the higher gods, who were personified by Azura: the most "benevolent", but also the most manipulative of the Daedra. I still believe that Vivec's actions were ultimately noble, even if he did have to betray and murder Nerevar to accomplish them. So I saw the destruction of the enchantments upon the Heart of Lorkhan as a tragedy - the Tribunal, the great bulwark against the divine, were cast down, and humanity would be slaves to the gods again. It was sad, and I was moved.

Sarafan, you're wrong about KOTOR II, but I admit you have to be very forgiving (or really like plodding, dense, cerebral games) to really appreciate it. If it was a mess, well, if Chris Avellone had been forced to release Planescape: Torment before it was finished, it would have been a complete mess too, and I think that the ideas presented in KOTOR II are more interesting than those of Torment. The story's not about the Sith Lords. It's about the Exile.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 07:52:15 pm by Mr. Vega »
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Offline Mr. Vega

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Voted for DA:O.

But, I have to take issue with the exclusion of Final Fantasy XII. That one was, in my opinion, much, much better than FFX in all respects. Excluding it from this List just because you didn't like it smacks of rampant Fan Dumb-ism.
I'm allowed to dislike something, believe it or not. And as I said, the list was according to my biases and prejudices. But fine. Someone second him and I'll add it to the list. Same goes for Arcanum. But noone's making me put up NWN1. Make Kara do it for you.

Quote
...Actually... If Planescape:Torment was in the list, THAT's the game i'd vote for number 1. Morrowind is 2nd for me, so that's my pick there.
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« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 08:08:49 pm by Mr. Vega »
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Offline Sarafan

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Sarafan, you're wrong about KOTOR II, but I admit you have to be very forgiving (or really like plodding, dense, cerebral games) to really appreciate it. If it was a mess, well, if Chris Avellone had been forced to release Planescape: Torment before it was finished, it would have been a complete mess too, and I think that the ideas presented in KOTOR II are more interesting than those of Torment. The story's not about the Sith Lords. It's about the Exile.

Yes, the story is about the Exile but the Sith lords are a part of it, the story has to have the bad guys, I'm just commenting that those bad guys are a real let down from what the game tries to paint them to be.

I know KOTOR 2 was rushed and I know there's some fans that managed to get a lot of what was cut back into the game and maybe the more complete version is better but the one that was released is simply one of the worst RPGs I've seen.

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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What drew me in was the deconstruction of the blind faith in the Force that goes unquestioned in all other SW stories, the analysis of the Exile's choice to defy the Jedi and go to war (Which leads to the implication that sometimes you have to do what you believe to be the right thing, regardless of the potentially horrible consequences your actions might cause, because the universe is a cruel place and it might not offer you an acceptable choice that absolves you of responsibility. This flies in the face of the Jedi teachings, and many real-world religions as well), and because of Kreia, the most complex character I have ever seen in a game. I loved picking apart what she said and trying to assemble it into a coherent philosophy. That she occasionally lied to and manipulated you made it even more fun. What can I say? I love stuff like that.
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Offline Desertfox287

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What drew me in was the deconstruction of the blind faith in the Force that goes unquestioned in all other SW stories, the analysis of the Exile's choice to defy the Jedi and go to war (Which leads to the implication that sometimes you have to do what you believe to be the right thing, regardless of the potentially horrible consequences your actions might cause, because the universe is a cruel place and it might not offer you an acceptable choice that absolves you of responsibility. This flies in the face of the Jedi teachings, and many real-world religions as well), and because of Kreia, the most complex character I have ever seen in a game. I loved picking apart what she said and trying to assemble it into a coherent philosophy. That she occasionally lied to and manipulated you made it even more fun. What can I say? I love stuff like that.
Agreed, that is a big reason why I liked KOTOR :yes:

 

Offline Enkidu

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What drew me in was the deconstruction of the blind faith in the Force that goes unquestioned in all other SW stories, the analysis of the Exile's choice to defy the Jedi and go to war (Which leads to the implication that sometimes you have to do what you believe to be the right thing, regardless of the potentially horrible consequences your actions might cause, because the universe is a cruel place and it might not offer you an acceptable choice that absolves you of responsibility. This flies in the face of the Jedi teachings, and many real-world religions as well), and because of Kreia, the most complex character I have ever seen in a game. I loved picking apart what she said and trying to assemble it into a coherent philosophy. That she occasionally lied to and manipulated you made it even more fun. What can I say? I love stuff like that.
Agreed, that is a big reason why I liked KOTOR :yes:

I also agree wholeheartedly. I really thought KOTOR II would end up outdoing the original KOTOR, all the characters seemed more rounded and human, and the narrative was very compelling, and I agree that Kreia was the most interesting character I'd encountered in a game. Everything was going so well, then suddenly you run headlong at full speed into the brickwall of failure that was the ending left wondering what the hell just happened.

On topic, I voted for Dragon Age. It had some of the most well rounded characters I've seen in an RPG, voice-acting was very good, and they did a great job making an immersive atmosphere. The amount of choices you could make, and the lack of a morality slider bar, were a great addition as well.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Where's the "I don't really play RPGs, so Snuffleupagus" option? :p

 

Offline Pred the Penguin

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I just skipped the ending of KoTOR II. The moment I landed I felt it wasn't going to be any fun and just stopped playing.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Of those I've played (Baldur's Gates, Dragon Age) I have to give it to Dragon Age. Only game besides Freespace II I've ever been tempted to heavily mod just to get more excitement out of it.

Baldur's Gate II seriously annoyed me at the start and its hideous railroad plot killed a lot of the enjoyment for me. The first one was a lot better in my opinion because although technically inferior it didn't feel the need to lead the player around by the nose.

I adored BG2. I adore Dragon Age. But what kills my mood in DA is the terrible attribute/level/loot/material system. Makes no sense. Terrible. TERRIBLE. Everything else is stellar. Bg1 had the best loot system ever.
Looking into modding DA:O for that atm... Already made great strides :)
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Offline Ransom

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My vote goes to Mask of the Betrayer, with KotOR 2 as a close second. MotB was less ambitious, but it felt more polished than either of Avellone's other titles and explored some very interesting questions about faith that really struck a note with me. It also featured some of the most satisfying moral decisions I've encountered in a game.

And as I said, the list was according to my biases and prejudices. But fine. Someone second him and I'll add it to the list. Same goes for Arcanum.
I've only played it very briefly, but what didn't you like about Arcanum, Vega?

 

Offline JMN

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I <3 Arcanum, please add it to the poll.
It's now available for 6$ on gog.com