Author Topic: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)  (Read 39281 times)

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Offline Fury

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Preferred playback device: Generic software

 
Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Having now tested both my ALC889A, and my Audigy 2 ZS, I would suggest that the merger of this code into trunk was premature.

Despite duplicating what fury did with the ALC889A, the device failed to initialise.
Predictably thereafter I get no sound what-so-ever.
The error isn't particularly helpful but here it is;
http://pastebin.com/ykhVAsGX

The ALC889A with new drivers produces this error on my box.
Sound works fine everywhere else (games/applications/etc) (on both cards).

The Audigy gets further;
http://pastebin.com/pddU4Bhx
However produces several errors.
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 
Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
So I got beepa involved (fraps' creators) and their reply was this;


       Thanks for your inquiry, and I'm sorry to hear that you are having trouble.  From your description it sounds like you are using the Creative ALchemy software or CMSS3D for 3D audio in your games?

       Unfortunately, there will be issues when the in-game audio is being processed via these technologies as it will bypass the new audio architecture in Windows 7 and Vista (in regards to using the "Record Win7/Vista sound" option in Fraps).

       Due to this, you should be able to work around the issue by configuring Fraps to use the "Record external input" option.  You will also need to open the Recording Devices settings via the Windows mixer and then set the recording device you would like to capture audio from as the default recording input.  For a Soundblaster card the most suitable recording input to use is called "What U Hear".

       Once you have set the default recording input/device, you will need to restart Fraps and then set the "Record external input" option under the Movies tab.

       Alternatively, if you find that this does not help, I'd suggest that you try disabling or shutting down the ALchemy/CMSS3D software.  Fraps should then be able to capture audio using the "Record Win7/Vista sound" setting.  Hope this helps!


Having done all these suggestions still leads to nothing usable (what u hear leads to a noisey mess, and CMSS3D has no effect).
I've replied to tell them as much but I thought I'd drop this here to keep Taylor updated.
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Actually, Taylor committed a few fixes to the sound code in the past day or two (mostly initialization / cleanup fixes).  See if you can get ahold of a bleeding-edge build.

 
Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
The_E thankfully made a build for me almost immediately after the commits were made, unfortunately, to no avail - the situation was completely un-changed :<
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline Fury

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
I can confirm that recent trunk builds work with Asus Xonar and Fraps can capture audio as well.

Just as a reminder, let me quote my earlier post in this topic.
Also tested with Audigy 2 ZS, Windows 7 64-bit. Latest OpenAL API and Audigy drivers. No sound is captured whenever a build containing taylor's audio code is used.

 

Offline Fury

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Addendum. Fraps cannot capture audio on Xonar if DS3D GX is enabled. When this mode is enabled, FSO launcher detecs Xonar as Generic Hardware. When disabled, launcher detects Xonar as Generic Software and Fraps can capture audio.

 
Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Interesting problem. . .

Prelude: I wanted to test out the 3D sound enabled by Taylor's sound test on my system. I am running an Auzentech X-Meridian 7.1 connected via Optical to a DDL 5.1 stereo, and the card is in DDL mode. Windows can ping each individual speaker correctly and this works properly with pretty much everything else. I have OpenAL 2.07 installed, Windows is Win7 x64.

I am unable to get anything other than plain jane Stereo sound out of this card with this game. The Launcher (5.5f beta) detects the card as "Generic Software" - thinking this might be a driver issue, I downloaded and installed the latest Oxygen HD driver from C-Media's website. It is a little newer than the latest on the Auzentech website (Rev .777 as opposed to rev .772). No difference.

At this point I just figured that perhaps a hardware renderer was required. It just so happens, I have a Sound Blaster Audigy sitting in a drawer. Trouble is, there is no way for me to get the 3D sound out of this card to the stereo (no optical out on the Audigy). I ran across a neat piece of software that addresses this, though. It is called Velbac.

Velbac is a spiffy bit of programming that links a Creative sound card to any other sound card via ASIO interception. Essentially, you set your default sound card in Windows to be the Creative card, set it up for 5.1, run Velbac and have it use the Creative ASIO driver to intercept the processed audio. It then sends it (via system RAM) to a sound card of your choice, such as my X-Meridian, which hardware encodes it into DDL and sends it to the stereo. Drawback is a bit of added latency to sounds (no where near as bad as you'd think, either).

First off - it actually works! I tested it with FEAR and was able to enable EAX HD (via Creative Alchemy) and get 5.1 surround in this game for the first time ever. Next up, I tried Taylor's sound test build dated 4/22/10. Well - it kinda works. You get the 3D sound, and it is nothing short of completely stunning how much more immersive the game is with it. Only problem is that foreground sounds (pre-mission speech, main lobby sound fx, pilot speech in game, gun shots, etc) come out of the right side speaker. I can hear the other pilots flying around me just fine, and explosions all appear to be placed correct other than this exception. It is just the foreground sounds that come out of the right side speaker. Odd.

Anyone else have any kind of problems like this?

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Well, I upgraded the realtek drivers, (5.10.0.6083, ALC882 on a asus p5w dh) turned off every possible setting I could think of but no matter what, the new sound code continues to sound like a hollow cave. With sounds completely disappearing when shooting in certain directions and a lot of effects just sounding distorted.
I've never had any kind of sound issues with this rig on any kind of game. Its just with this new sound code. And I'd really like to see this fixed (or hell, for now I'd settle for being taken seriously instead of being ignored/being told 'its just you') especially considering this has been thrown into the trunk (and I take it that means there is no way to just continue using the old sound with new builds)
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline taylor

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Well, I upgraded the realtek drivers, (5.10.0.6083, ALC882 on a asus p5w dh) turned off every possible setting I could think of but no matter what, the new sound code continues to sound like a hollow cave. With sounds completely disappearing when shooting in certain directions and a lot of effects just sounding distorted.
I've never had any kind of sound issues with this rig on any kind of game. Its just with this new sound code. And I'd really like to see this fixed (or hell, for now I'd settle for being taken seriously instead of being ignored/being told 'its just you') especially considering this has been thrown into the trunk (and I take it that means there is no way to just continue using the old sound with new builds)
Try running with the -no_3d_sound option.  That will make it behave basically the same as the old code.  Also make sure that EFX is turned off in the launcher, as that can certainly make the "hollow cave" you are describing.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Enabling EFX or disabling it makes no difference, adding -no_3d_sound to the flag list unfortunately does nothing either.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline taylor

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Please post your log file for me to look at.


And as far as old code vs. new code, look, the old code is still there and is almost entirely unchanged.  I fixed and enabled 3D sound, I fixed and enabled the enumeration support, I fixed and enabled the EAX type of effects from retail, I fixed the Mantis bugs that people kept complaining about, and I cleaned out the old Windows-only sound code that was no longer used.  That's it.  The rest of the code, the majority of the code that was in-use before, is exactly the same as it was.  The EAX effects are optional and disabled by default, the 3D sound stuff is default but can be disabled to make it work exactly like the "old code" with the -no_3d_sound option.  There really just isn't anything to "fix" after that to make it work right for you, because at that point it is almost exactly the same code that has always been there.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
a Debug log or?

Well even if you say that...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBCB-d-Qxyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR4H75ODu2w
it sure doesn't sound the same on this machine.  :ick:
And that's with the -no_3d_sound flag enabled (which doesn't seem to do much of anything for me)
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline The E

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Please post an fs2_open.log, Spoon.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline taylor

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
One of the main changes in the new code is the proper enumeration support.  This basically ends up changing the default sound device from a best guess for OpenAL 1.0 support to allowing OpenAL 1.1 choose what works best for it.  So your problem is most likely just an issue of the system having different settings and the game with the new code using a different sound device.  I think that there is a control panel applet or something of that sort for configuring your Realtek HD card, so that would be the first thing you should probably look at.  If it has any sort of effects enabled on it or an improper speaker configuration then it would definitely attribute to your problem.  I've have dealt with some buggy Realtek HD installs before so you should also just trying to reset the driver config to defaults (should be an option in the control panel applet if I'm not mistaken) and restarting your computer to see if that makes a difference.  Another thing to check is selecting different playback devices in the launcher (5.5f+) and see if there is an improvement there.

Basically the old code was just wrong and the new code is smarter about device selection.  Unfortunately that means that there could be a configuration issue on your system which you didn't know about and the old code was too stupid to even trigger.  It's just that you are aware of the problem now where as you weren't before.  This is the same thing that happened when the shader code was introduced: some models didn't render properly due to geometry problems even though they worked perfectly in the older code; the problem was always there, it just wasn't known.

I'm not saying that the new sound code is perfect, but too many of the reported issues/problems so far are just system issues and not really something that can be addressed in the code (unless the code gets broken to make the wrong things work).


If you want something else to test then I can suggest using OpenAL-Soft and seeing if that does anything useful.  I'm attaching an OpenAL32.dll that you can put in the game directory (DO NOT install it system wide) which should override your system OpenAL with the current version of OpenAL-Soft.  Note that this will also disable any special OpenAL support from your sound drivers too, so you won't get hardware accelerated sound or anything with this present.  But if the problem is your system-wide OpenAL install or some OpenAL specific issue with your sound drivers then this should make it work.

[attachment deleted by ninja]

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Quote
One of the main changes in the new code is the proper enumeration support.  This basically ends up changing the default sound device from a best guess for OpenAL 1.0 support to allowing OpenAL 1.1 choose what works best for it.  So your problem is most likely just an issue of the system having different settings and the game with the new code using a different sound device.  I think that there is a control panel applet or something of that sort for configuring your Realtek HD card, so that would be the first thing you should probably look at.  If it has any sort of effects enabled on it or an improper speaker configuration then it would definitely attribute to your problem.  I've have dealt with some buggy Realtek HD installs before so you should also just trying to reset the driver config to defaults (should be an option in the control panel applet if I'm not mistaken) and restarting your computer to see if that makes a difference.  Another thing to check is selecting different playback devices in the launcher (5.5f+) and see if there is an improvement there.
Yeah I already tried every single thing in the drivers options, that's why I came complaining here  :p

Quote
If you want something else to test then I can suggest using OpenAL-Soft and seeing if that does anything useful.  I'm attaching an OpenAL32.dll that you can put in the game directory (DO NOT install it system wide) which should override your system OpenAL with the current version of OpenAL-Soft.  Note that this will also disable any special OpenAL support from your sound drivers too, so you won't get hardware accelerated sound or anything with this present.  But if the problem is your system-wide OpenAL install or some OpenAL specific issue with your sound drivers then this should make it work.
  :yes2: :) :yes:
Throwing this file in the freespace folder seems to be the magical key I was looking for.
Now I can enjoy the new sound goodies too  :D

Thanks Taylor
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline taylor

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
:yes2: :) :yes:
Throwing this file in the freespace folder seems to be the magical key I was looking for.
Now I can enjoy the new sound goodies too  :D
Good to hear, though it does indicate a problem with the system installed OpenAL.  I think it would help others out if we can debug it a little further and try to better figure out when in the system setup is causing the problem.  If you are willing to try out a couple of other things let me know and I'll PM you the details.

And would you mind putting up another debug log from using the new dll for comparison?

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
I've actually been curious about moving to a OpenAL-Soft binary instead of the Creative reference build for the last several months.  What kind of downsides are there to installing an OpenAL-Soft binary system wide as opposed to using the Creative-supplied one?  I was under the impression the -Soft implementation was 100% backwards compatible with the reference 1.0 implementation.
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Offline Spoon

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Re: "Testing, Testing, One, Two ..." (new sound code)
Good to hear, though it does indicate a problem with the system installed OpenAL.  I think it would help others out if we can debug it a little further and try to better figure out when in the system setup is causing the problem.  If you are willing to try out a couple of other things let me know and I'll PM you the details.

And would you mind putting up another debug log from using the new dll for comparison?
http://pastebin.com/BkDV4md9
Sure thing, I'll be awaiting your pm.

Edit: Fred complains on start up that it cannot initialize audio. Silly Fred, you don't use audio.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2010, 07:26:15 am by Spoon »
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them