Author Topic: Starcraft 2 discussion  (Read 59422 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
Spoiler:
Kerrigan was never meant to be rescued. Her fundamental arc took her from a position of subservience and betrayal - first under the Confederacy, then under Mengsk - to finally discovering power and meaning under the Overmind. Brood War was entirely her story. Her character was enriched and made infinitely more fascinating by the fact that she wasn't a mind-controlled thrall made evil by some brainwashing - she genuinely enjoyed her position.

Raynor, too, was defined by the tragic inevitability of being forced to kill her. That was what he swore and it's what he should have been forced to (try to) do. Raynor is not and never has been a particularly interesting man, and this was really all he had as a character.

Worst of all was the fact that Kerrigan never did anything. She took not one action that altered the setting or another character after Brood War. There was so much that could have been done on this front - Kerrigan offering to dispose of Mengsk, Kerrigan doing something, anything - but it wasn't. One of the great villains of game history just got to show up, twirl her mustache, repeat 'drats, foiled again!' for a few missions, and then effectively die.

The idea that blasting her with a Xel'naga artifact could somehow change not just her physical capabilities but her personality and beliefs was a narrative mistake of the highest order. She should have been weeping and raging at what was done to her.  Never mind that it renders all of Brood War and most of Starcraft an utter waste.

And no, there was no final twist. She will retain control of the Swarms and act as a white hat now.

I hope the multiplayer's fun.

Spoiler:
Unfortunately for you, Blizzard has stated the exact opposite regarding Sarah Kerrigan's character. She was intially defined by her Confederate conditioning; then she was defined by her desire to ensure "never again".  Being infested did, in fact, result in a violent personality shift. And your belief that it didn't or would is farcical at best considering what exactly infestation involves doing to someone. Of course complete physical reconstruction of your body and ****ing about with your DNA isn't going to **** with your head! Give me a break, Battuta, aren't you a sci-fi author? Transhumanism involves by necessity a shift in perspective; and the Zerg would as a matter of course condition her to be a better servant just as the Confederates did. They've more or less come out and said that leading the swarm is exactly what the Overmind had in mind for her; you think the Overmind would not try and ensure this event came to pass by messing with Kerrigan's head? It can, and it wants a certain sequence of events to occur, and it's committed genocide before to improve its chances so it's not going to give a damn about brainwashing.
I'm well aware of all that, I just think it's stupid. And I think less of Blizzard's writers for going with it.

I have always thought the most chilling and brilliant reading of Kerrigan is that she was selected and chosen because she was willing to become what she did of her own free will. The Overmind did not need another pawn.

Spoiler:
No matter how much she was changed by infestation - which I'm perfectly willing to buy - it was apparently the kind of change that can be reversed by a blast of nonspecific Xel'Naga energy. And that's just dumb.

Quote
Raynor is the quintessential good guy. You're not the first person I've seen with a hate-on for the concept but frankly I still don't understand it.

I don't have a hate-on for it; I thought he was a decent character in Starcraft. Now he's a boring charisma vacuum. This is because Starcraft 2 has bad writing at the fundamental dialogue level. It's a towering ziggurat made of bricks of wet ****.

The rest of my points stand.

Quote
What exactly would you have Kerrigan do?

Spoiler:
Something other than fail completely at a few minor tasks and then effectively be taken out of action after a decade of buildup? Kill Mengsk, wipe out the Dominion, something of note. Strike a deal with Raynor to jointly take care of the Dominion in exchange for preserving some human lives. Would have been an interesting plot branch.

What a waste of a game. And a perfectly good mythos at that.  :(

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
edit'd

You aren't going to somehow talk me into liking it, and I doubt you're actually interested in hearing my points, so I'm not sure this is going to be at all productive.

The depth of my disappointment is such that I need to go replay Brood War now.

 

Offline mxlm

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
Spoiler:
No matter how much she was changed by infestation - which I'm perfectly willing to buy - it was apparently the kind of change that can be reversed by a blast of nonspecific Xel'Naga energy. And that's just dumb.

We don't know this. Just as we don't know that
Spoiler:
she's going to be a white hat now--or perhaps, to what degree she'll be a white hat. I'd note that the orcs were retconned into not-totally-psychotic but that didn't seem to keep them from fighting everyone all the time
. It's not an unreasonable inference, granted.
I will ask that you explain yourself. Please do so with the clear understanding that I may decide I am angry enough to destroy all of you and raze this sickening mausoleum of fraud down to the naked rock it stands on.

 

Offline Hades

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
Just found out that the SC2 editor can convert old Starcraft 1 and Brood war maps, so if anyone has a map called Space Pirate Wars or something like that from brood war multiplayer, I'd really appreciate it if you could send it my way. :)

EDIT: Nevermind, found a version online an converted it though the conversion ****s up pretty much everything; units, depthing, triggers.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 03:28:48 am by Hades »
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Liberator

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
I have a short announcment to make about a discovery of mine after playing 11 campaign missions.

Spoiler:
Zeratul is biggest badass in known space.  That is all.

I now return you to your Korean style multi-play induced roasting of what so far has been a decent story.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
I have a short announcment to make about a discovery of mine after playing 11 campaign missions.

Spoiler:
Zeratul is biggest badass in known space.  That is all.

I now return you to your Korean style multi-play induced roasting of what so far has been a decent story.

The SC1 Zeratul, maybe. This new one is a drooling, inveterate moron who talks like Thrall's inbred space cousin.

The story is about as decent as Subic Bay whore is modest.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
Just found out that the SC2 editor can convert old Starcraft 1 and Brood war maps, so if anyone has a map called Space Pirate Wars or something like that from brood war multiplayer, I'd really appreciate it if you could send it my way. :)

EDIT: Nevermind, found a version online an converted it though the conversion ****s up pretty much everything; units, depthing, triggers.

thats good to know. does the game also support a legacy mode with all the classic units/rules/etc? would be awesome if you could import the entire sc1 and broodwar campaigns . i should finally have my copy in the next day or two.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
Gotta agree about the storyline with Batutta. Finelys arc bug me even more than Kerrigans

Spoiler:
Why follow trough with any deal made with Mengks. He hates Mengsk, and the revolution was doing good. Mengsk can't keep him a prisoner is he's DEAD or removed from power.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Hades

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
Well, no. But you can allow some of the old units that they included for the campaign to be built where they were built from in SC1.

Gotta agree about the storyline with Batutta. Finelys arc bug me even more than Kerrigans
Spoiler:
Well first off, how do you figure he kills Mengsk? He can't do it himself, he can't get Raynor to do it because Findlay is being watched, he can't get Kerrigan to do it, as she'd likely kill him instead. So tell me, how is he going to kill Mengsk, seeing as how he's being watched by Mengsk and Mengsk can kill him at a moment's notice by using Findlay's suit to shut down his major arteries?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 01:31:00 am by Hades »
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
Yeah,
Spoiler:
funny how Mengsk didn't when Findlay was, y'know, striking the greatest blow against the Dominion since the UED invasion. Instead he saves it for...trying to kill an already helpless Kerrigan? And doesn't bother to use his real-time tracking of Findlay and (presumably) ability to eavesdrop on all of the Raiders' plans to, you know, stop them?

 

Offline mxlm

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
Spoiler:
Alright, so in the mission Media Blitz if you blow up a tech lab in the south east and then complete the mission you get to go do a sekrit mission. The secret mission? Is really good. Go load up the appropriate save so you can play it.

Well, Battuta shouldn't, but everyone else should. The second half of that thing was wonderfully tense. Due to the gameplay, not the narrative.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 07:28:30 am by Fury »
I will ask that you explain yourself. Please do so with the clear understanding that I may decide I am angry enough to destroy all of you and raze this sickening mausoleum of fraud down to the naked rock it stands on.

 

Offline Turambar

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The Starcraft 2 Drinking Game has one rule: When Jimmy drinks, you drink.


Also, whoever composed the Terran music has been watching lots of Firefly.  Not that it's a problem, with the banged up technology and the space rednecks.  I still need to go and beat the last couple of missions before I can read all the spoilers in here.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 07:27:17 am by Turambar »
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: The Starcraft 2 Thread!
The Starcraft 2 Drinking Game has one rule: When Jimmy drinks, you drink.


Also, whoever composed the Terran music has been watching lots of Firefly.  Not that it's a problem, with the banged up technology and the space rednecks.  I still need to go and beat the last couple of missions before I can read all the spoilers in here.

Aye, definitely, but I really liked the Firefly vibe to the music.

One cutscene sticks out in my mind as having a Firefly vibe to it as well, the one where
Spoiler:
Raynor kicks Tychus' ass for being all dissentin'.
The scenario and the music (especially the last piece) struck me as so very Firefly (Almost like something that Mal and Jayne would have going on)
Full Auto - I've got a bullet here with your name on it, and I'm going to keep firing until I find out which one it is.

<The_E>   Several sex-based solutions come to mind
<The_E>   Errr
<The_E>   *sexp

 
Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
I'm enjoying the campaign so far, but my internet fail is hurtin' me bad. Any recommendations on how to develop the tech tree? I'm trying to save up my credits.

lol @ me having both the silver and gold achievements for the challenge missions but not the bronze, because of internet fail.
VBB survivor (the J master) - five hundred something posts

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
Spoiler:
Well first off, how do you figure he kills Mengsk? He can't do it himself, he can't get Raynor to do it because Findlay is being watched, he can't get Kerrigan to do it, as she'd likely kill him instead. So tell me, how is he going to kill Mengsk, seeing as how he's being watched by Mengsk and Mengsk can kill him at a moment's notice by using Findlay's suit to shut down his major arteries?


Spoiler:
I always love it how writes just gloss over the fact that rebellions tend to bu suspicious, and that nobody question Finley constantly being the armor OR the fact that the armor constantly sends signals god knows where?
Also, I don't recall "shutting down major arteries" bit.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

  

Offline starbug

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
Yeah if you speak to findlay, in the ship scenes, he does explain the armour.

I loved the music, wish they would release the jukebox or be able to play the tracks during missions or skirmish's, sweet home Alabama during a mission would be great
http://www.youtube.com/user/AnubisX1

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Offline Ransom

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
While I can't say I feel the same anger Battuta does over the story - I was never especially fond of the original's - I don't disagree. It's a crippled mess of missed opportunities. The narrative was criminally unsure of itself and the pacing was sloppy, but what amazed me was that it was dull. I just didn't care.

I feel a bit embarrassed by the whole thing, to be honest. I'd told myself that the massive cluster**** that is World of Warcraft's mythology (which, come to think of it, similarly unraveled the interesting conditions laid down by Frozen Throne) couldn't possibly bear on Blizzard's storytelling capabilities as a whole. Boy, is my face red.

Spoiler:
It's such a shame they've done the same thing to Starcraft as they did to Warcraft when they introduced the Burning Legion. Blizzard seem terrified by the idea of a sympathetic antagonist - rather than following a complex emotional situation to its conclusion, they panic and bust out some Saturday morning cartoon villain that aims to DESTROY AZEROTH/THE UNIVERSE (???) so the various factions don't have to worry about irksome things like motivation and conflict.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
Yeah, this game is really unto Brood War what World of Warcraft was unto Frozen Throne. Now we just get to see what they do to make Sanctuary less interesting in Diablo 3!  ;7

There was a moment towards the end of SC2 where Raynor delivers one of the worst trailer lines - looks directly into the camera and utters "Some things are just worth fighting for." Shame the story didn't present any!

On the plus side the multi is awesome.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 12:42:50 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
I remember playing brood war and Duran Duran was there doing some shady ****, cooking up some hybrids for the xel'naga.  I was wondering if we'd get new playable races or interesting plot points out of it.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Starcraft 2 Beta is now Live
I remember playing brood war and Duran Duran was there doing some shady ****, cooking up some hybrids for the xel'naga.  I was wondering if we'd get new playable races or interesting plot points out of it.

We got awful plot points out of it.
Spoiler:
Basically the Burning Legion redux, except with a leader called, I **** you not, The Fallen One.