[JGZinv]

I've got an old Dell 340 Workstation that I'm mostly using for computer repair
and am thinking of switching out the ATI FireGL 8800 that came with it.

Reasons:
Resolution support is sparse
Drivers really don't exist beyond what I've got already.
It's Open GL 1.4 and DirectX 8.1 era...

I'm thinking about getting a EVGA Geforce 6200LE 512MB instead for about $36.
Of which it should solve all of the above and work in the 4x slot fine.

Some specs:
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=419&card2=505
I don't think that's the correct 6200LE, but it's similar.

I'm also looking at probably dropping about $24 on some additional memory
which is some ancient rambus pc-800 40. Since the poor thing only has 512 currently.
It's a P4 cpu... XP Pro... otherwise can't say much for it - it's stable and reliable.


I'm not looking to play SCP maxed out or so forth, at most I might run it as a server box
for various things when it's not otherwise detained. I've got a C2D with a GTX 275 for
gaming elseware.


I guess I'm looking for opinions:

1. Go with the upgrade, get the ram and the card.
2. Get ram / forget the card.
3. Look for a $200 desktop somewhere, anything newer would be better.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I think you should definitely go for more RAM. If it's sturdy and reliable, adding RAM won't kill it. Case in point is my IBM crate, which started out with 248 MB. It's served me well for the past five years, and I upgraded the RAM from 248 MB to 2 GB last October so that it can use its Celeron processor a little better. It's only crashed on me once since then, and that was only because the Intel graphics card on it can't render Winamp's AVS properly.

[Klaustrophobia]

ram is definitely the most cost-effective upgradable in that, i'd put the priority there.  personally i don't think that vid card will be worth the upgrade, even at that price.  you ought to be able to find something like an ati 9800pro on the cheap nowadays.  in fact, i've got an old one lying around.  come to think of it, my old desktop is still intact.  i'd be willing to part with it if you don't need it soon (it's at home, i'm at skool).  it ran Far Cry for me very well back in the day on rather high settings (on a 1024x768 CRT though). 

[Kosh]

ancient rambus pc-800 40

Wow, haven't seen those for a real long time. I now laugh at your total tech obsolescence.


Haven't been able to say that in a while. In all seriousness I'd go for the RAM upgrade first. After that bottleneck has been removed, then your next biggest gaming bottleneck will be your video card. If your system has a lot of RAM, then upgrading your vid card will have a much bigger impact on performance than getting a low end new system.

Of course another choice is to get a low end new system and put a really awesome video card in it.

[Bob-san]

Here's a quick cheap list (without OS but $266 shipped)...

Foxconn R10-G3 barebone @ $80 (or R40-G4 @ $100)
Intel Celeron E3300 2.5GHz dual-core processor
Crucial 2GB DDR2 800 RAM
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB hard drive
Regular ol' SATA DVD burner

Five reason to go with the R40-G4 for $20 more?
1) Nicer looking chassis IMO
2) Intel G41 chipset is an upgrade over the older G31 chipset
3) Intel GMA X4500 is better than GMA X3100
4) PCI Express 2.0 x16 instead of PCI Express 1.0/1.1 x16
5) Comes with a 17-in-1 memory card reader (and is already built-in; a nicer-looking solution than buying a 3.5" bay memory card reader)

Biggest drawback to those cheap barebones is that there's only 1 slot for RAM. 2GB is fine (in my experience) with XP or Vista, but YMMV. However, should be just fine for FSO and relatively basic use. It'll accept a low-profile PCI Express x16 card if you wanted to go that route; there's low-profile Radeon HD 4650's floating around for $50 as well as all reference-board Radeon HD 5570's (literally designed for low-profile and HTPC use) for $85.

Other than that, there ARE quite a few AGP graphics cards flying around. Here's a Radeon HD 3650 512MB for AGP 8x @ $60


EDIT: Forget that LG drive; it's got some sort of "issue" (read a few reviews). I already replaced the link to a Sony drive.

[JGZinv]

Well, here be the thing.

1. Between the GL8800 "fun" it's given me over it's lifespan, and every other ATI
product I've used having driver issues... I lost my taste for them some time ago.
On the other hand, every nVidia product I've used has simply worked. It may not be
the cheapest or fastest piece of silicon, but it isn't a pain in the butt.

2. The system itself has only a single 4x agp slot, which is unfortunate considering they
were selling another version of the same system with pci at the time. So that cuts out a lot
of upgrades. I might mention it's all USB 1 ver ports as well.

One of the reasons for the idea of the upgrade on the vid card is the supported resolutions.
Basically since lcds in widescreen became popular, it'd be cheaper in the long run to replace the
card and get a new monitor, than to try and find something that'll work with the fire gl.
Right now I've got it hooked up to a '93 esque CRT which is getting a bit hard on the eyes.

3. The 340 has a maximum of 2 GB RAM, and it all has to be matching sets of memory,
or so it claims. I've got 2x256 sticks in there now, with 2 dummy cards. The "only" reasonable
pack of memory I can find is off eBay, otherwise to go to any more than 1Gb total, I'm looking
at over $110 + shp to try and get 2GB. Which is out of the question for that kind of money/tech.

4. I've got plenty of other misc parts I could rob off other machines. such as optical drives.
Nothing fantastic, but I've got a surplus of spare parts from other systems, just not enough to build
a rig from scratch. Again, this unit really isn't for gaming, I mainly use it to fix other folk's PCs.


I suppose if I got another repair or two in, I could probably splurge for something similar
to bob-san's parts list there.

[Bob-san]

Be aware that the Foxconn flex-ATX boards (sized between micro-ATX and mini-ITX) do NOT support IDE drives; that restricts you to SATA. Other than that, the other two issues I already mentioned. The first being that there's only one slot for RAM and the second being that you can only use low-profile expansion cards. According to Newegg, the motherboard in use (a Foxconn G41S-K) will support 4GB DDR2 800 DIMM's, though a single stick costs $120, compared to $40 for a 2GB stick. Once more up it's up to you.

Oh, and my experience with ATI v. nVidia is the exact opposite of yours. I actually got quite fed up with nVidia. I definitely like that ATI releases one Catalyst driver suite each month (and occasionally a hotfix for newly released cards), as it makes management much simpler. I disliked that, at the time I last used nVidia (an 8800GT-256MB), there were half a dozen different driver sets floating around, each with their own problems. I had quite a few problems getting the 8800GT to work, and eventually regulated its use to my sister's computer when I reclaimed my HD3850. Even if it's slower, it's been much easier and more reliable for me.

[JGZinv]

Well not to try and turn the topic to vid cards, as I'm not a vid card zealot or something...

So far I've had

Really old PCI board - 3rd party barebones
8800m gtx - in a sager
9800m gs - in an asus
260m gtx - in a sager
275 gtx - in self built desktop

All of which ran fine, never been an issue.
Drivers pretty much break down into official releases or the 3rd party enthusiast from Dox.
The latter come out more frequently than the official ones and are more tweaked.

ATI

8800 FireGL (no driver support). - Dell 340
Recent Radeon Mobility something in a Toshiba laptop (driver/display issues)
A pair of Rage Pros circa '95 - they had driver/display issues at times - Compaq Presarios

Plus I watch here and the NotebookReviews forums, and I see "a lot" of folks complaining about
ATI driver issues or compatibility problems - particularly with applications and games.
So it's just not worth it to fiddle around. If ATI/AMD would get their driver support nailed down
they might be worth a look imo. Typically Nvidia is adding more features like the 3D glasses kits,
or the older cards I can remember used to be able to setup as a 3D HTPC. That was really popular
with flight sims and Starcraft back 4-5 years ago.


But back on topic...

I noticed the Foxconn had no IDE support... so that sort of puts the price back up there.
I'd probably go with a smaller drive though. I really don't need 500 GB. Even on my main machine
I'm hovering around 90 GB and the 340 has a 40 GB that it's gotten by with. A 160 to 250 GB would be
plenty. Eventually I'll save up enough and put a NAS in with about 4-6 TB... so then storage won't be an issue.

2Gb with XP goes a long way... although I probably wouldn't stick 7 on there for some time.

Right now I'm sort of watching eBay to see if anything there with a mid/full tower chassis would fit in
my budget. I'm hesitant to go with a small form factor design since as you might have guessed, I tend to keep
things for a long time and upgrade rather than buy new.

[Bob-san]

My experiences...

ATI/AMD:
Rage Pro IGP with a Pentium II 400MHz (prebuilt)
Rage Pro (PCI) with an AMD K6-2 550MHz (custom but old build)
Radeon 7000 with a Celeron 2GHz (custom but old build)
Radeon HD 3200 IGP with an Athlon 64 (custom build's IGP)
Radeon HD 3850 with a Pentium E2140 and now Pentium E6300 (custom build for myself)
Radeon HD 4650 with a Core i5-750 (custom build for a friend)
Radeon HD 4850 with a Phenom II X4 940BE (custom build for another friend)

nVidia:
GeForce 256 (IIRC) with a Pentium II 266MHz (custom but old build)
GeForce FX 5200 with a Celeron 2GHz (custom but old build upgrade)
GeForce 6200SE with an Athlon 64 (custom build's IGP)
GeForce 8800GT with a Pentium E2140 and now Athlon 64 X2 (custom build upgrade)


Main reason I usually go with AMD is it's simply easier to tell what driver set is used or is needed. I rather like the Catalyst YY.MM designation, versus Forceware ###.??. Once either is setup, it works just fine unless a program has a specific issue with the card. Either way, I've had issues with both on various programs. i just found that the 8800GT was a PITA to get running when I had my E2140, overclocking or not.

As for the reasoning for the 500GB drive; it's $55 shipped. There's 250GB drives around for $45 or so, but that's about the best GB/$ that I've seen around. Earlier, there was a 750GB version of that drive at $60 on sale, which would be an even better deal. Even if you don't use it regularly, it's "good" to have storage space.