[Kosh]

Alright, then what's your absolutely brialliant plan to get anything working?

Back off a moment, the man has a point. It's a lot harder to bribe (or lobby, which is a form of legalized bribery) the federal government than it is a state government.

Then why is it such a huge problem (or at least more widely known) at the federal level and not so uch at the state level? According to a 2007 estimate there are 17,000 lobbyists ( source) in DC.

The Constitution says "We, the People", not "We, the Robots", so screw them.

That's just asking them to rise up and nuke us, ala Battlestar Galactica.

[Bob-san]

So what's next? Free government-provided tech support for all?

[Nuclear1]

I can't tell if that's a joke or if you're being serious.

[SpardaSon21]

I think it is partially facetious, partially a valid question.  Bob-san's intent is probably to ask, "Where do we draw the line at what rights government is forced to provide for us?"

[Nuclear1]

Technology isn't a human right.

As it stands, you won't die if your computer gets a virus.  Also, how many people go into bankruptcy ever year over tech support?

If your computer breaks down and you can't access the internet on any of the other devices that can connect these days (which you very well easily have at least two of in your house), go to a government-subsidized public library with internet access. 

Maybe as technology expands the definition will change.  After all, one hundred years ago nobody cared if you had insurance on your Model T.

[TrashMan]

And you say this about people coming into America?.

Because EVERYTHING is about America, no? The other countries in the world don't have immigration, because they suck compared to the great USofA, no?

Give it two generations.  The children and grandchildren will be integrated by then.

Not always. There are groups that are "closed off" and their children and their childrens children keep the mannerisms and behavior. A lot of smaller things, but they do stand out - purely by their behavior.
In a lot of cases they are..unadjusted and act somewhat "primitive" (for the lack of a better word).

[Bob-san]

Technology has become an absolute necessity in the modern world. We spend the majority of our time somehow interacting with sophisticated computers and assorted electronics. My point is, yes, "where do we draw the line?" Government-mandated healthcare has passed through the US federal government. I've not been able to find a complete transcript of the bill or even a decent summary of it; I don't have a TV and so I don't watch the news. *shrug* From what I do understand, it basically makes refusing health coverage a crime. Why? Because if you didn't have it before and sought help, the American taxpayers would foot the bill for it. Now? You seek government coverage and the American taxpayers will foot the bill for it. What's the problem with this? The American taxpayers will be footing the bill either way. The question is more, to me, whether or not the taxpayer can afford to essentially provide services for ten times the people while public (and private) hospital standards at least remain the same. It's not been proven to me yet.

When considering an idea, cui bono? For "whose benefit" is this idea?
When implementing an idea, primum non nocere. "First, do no harm." It's often better to do nothing than to make a risky decision that can do quite a bit of harm.

Universal healthcare is a fantastic idea, but the idea of providing it through a single mega-corporation or a large national government with board interests is potentially a horrible idea. I'm not convinced that Mr. Obama or the 111th US Congress or 111th US Senate can properly oversee such an idea implemented in this country. Furthermore, I'm FAR from convinced that the 112th, 113th, 114th, &c US Congress or Senate or the 45th, 46th, 47th, &c President will be able properly oversee such an idea implemented. And for the price combined with the corruption and the government's own convex lens on spending... that's scary to me.



The smaller the font point, the less money it is, right? Wait? What? Wrong?!? You mean our government has been doing it wrong the entire time?!?!?!?!?

[Kosh]

Yep, how dare people keep their old culture when moving to the US. They're in America now, the great melting pot. They must adopt the American Way of Life (TM) or go home.

Given the racism and sexism that often accompanies "old cultures", I'm really not so sure you would want to be saying that. Do you want people bringing female genital mutilation with them?

[Nuclear1]

Well it's not the good ol American Way of Life isn't immune from its own racist tendencies...

[iamzack]

Yep, how dare people keep their old culture when moving to the US. They're in America now, the great melting pot. They must adopt the American Way of Life (TM) or go home.

Given the racism and sexism that often accompanies "old cultures", I'm really not so sure you would want to be saying that. Do you want people bringing female genital mutilation with them?

FGM is a human rights violation everywhere, not just the US. And we don't talk about born-agains or baptists having to abandon their culture even thought they're horridly racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. If Americans can be assholes, so can immigrants. Countries are just lines in the sand anyway.

Give it two generations.  The children and grandchildren will be integrated by then.

Not always. There are groups that are "closed off" and their children and their childrens children keep the mannerisms and behavior. A lot of smaller things, but they do stand out - purely by their behavior.
In a lot of cases they are..unadjusted and act somewhat "primitive" (for the lack of a better word).

Primitive and isolated... You know Alabama, Kentucky, West Virginia, et al. aren't foreign countries, right?

[Mongoose]

Have you ever talked to people from any of these states, or are you just wanking off to stereotypes again?

[iamzack]

I've lived in middle-of-no-where eastern NC and spent several summers in middle-of-no-where western NC. Lots and lots and lots of people with primitive behaviors and mannerisms.

[SpardaSon21]

Zack, "primitive" and "sexist" or "racist" are not synonyms.  Can anyone from the South provide me with some non-sexist or non-racist "primitive" behaviors?

[iamzack]

Can a person be racist or sexist without being primitive?

Anyway, have you ever heard of snake holding baptists? They're Appalachians mostly. There's an example of primitive behavior.

Maybe Trashman should give us some examples of primitive behaviors practiced by immigrants so that I can find the American equivalents.

[SpardaSon21]

Zack, name one thing wrong with snake-holding other than "It's primitive."  I don't believe handling snakes during worship has anything to do with racism or sexism.  Racism and sexism may be taught at those sessions under the supposed rationale of "It's in the Bible.", but the act of snake-handling itself does not involve racism or sexism as far as I know.

Would you say that voudoun practicioners need to stop their "primitive" rituals, or are you merely biased against rednecks?

[Liberator]

Zack, "primitive" and "sexist" or "racist" are not synonyms.  Can anyone from the South provide me with some non-sexist or non-racist "primitive" behaviors?

Hmm?

Primitive you say?

Most of us pull to the side of the road, any road, when a funeral procession goes by.

I go to the Marshall Space Flight Center's Space Museum sometimes.  That pretty primitive...

The only racist people I "know of"(I've never actually met them) seem to be the Mayor or Birmingham and his flunkies, but he's black so I guess it doesn't count.

It really is kind of depressing when the Wikipedia article on your state ends at 1975.  We're actually quite modern, but no, I doubt that's what zack means, she probably means that since we're not snooty hooty tooty like the bloody New Yorkers(my sister has been there several times and said that they are typically very rude to out of towners) or whatever that we're backward and hickish.  We get CNN and all the major networks, it's not months or years before the new fashions show up at the various stores that deal in them.  In fact I can think of nothing that is not within a reasonable driving distance if I need it.  OH! And we have fresh air any time you need it!

[iamzack]

Snake holding and the sexist/racism comment were separate things in my post.

Snake holding rituals are dangerous, especially when they involve poisonous snakes, and especially when they involve children. And, like FGM, it would be dangerous and bad *anywhere* not just the US.

The only racist people I "know of"(I've never actually met them) seem to be the Mayor or Birmingham and his flunkies, but he's black so I guess it doesn't count.

It really is kind of depressing when the Wikipedia article on your state ends at 1975.  We're actually quite modern, but no, I doubt that's what zack means, she probably means that since we're not snooty hooty tooty like the bloody New Yorkers(my sister has been there several times and said that they are typically very rude to out of towners) or whatever that we're backward and hickish.  We get CNN and all the major networks, it's not months or years before the new fashions show up at the various stores that deal in them.  In fact I can think of nothing that is not within a reasonable driving distance if I need it.  OH! And we have fresh air any time you need it!

Your counter to "southerners are primitive" is "northerners are rude"? Really? BTW, I'm a southerner too (and I've brought this up before), so I'm not just playing off secondhand stereotypes. You've never met a racist? Ever? The only one you've known of is the Mayor of Birmingham? Then you're very naive. I grew up in a town where the black/white line was Main St, and a realtor didn't want to sell us a house because our last name sounded black.

Welcome to the real America, things aren't all apple pie and ice cream.

[Hades]

Zack, "primitive" and "sexist" or "racist" are not synonyms.  Can anyone from the South provide me with some non-sexist or non-racist "primitive" behaviors?

Most of us pull to the side of the road, any road, when a funeral procession goes by.


The only racist people I "know of"(I've never actually met them) seem to be the Mayor or Birmingham and his flunkies, but he's black so I guess it doesn't count.

I've never seen anyone pull to the side of the road when a funeral procession goes by.

Do you mean Larry Langford or the new guy that took office when Larry was booted out of office? Also, I know a good deal of racist people here, in fact, most of the people I know are racist.

[Liberator]

Snake holding and the sexist/racism comment were separate things in my post.

Snake holding rituals are dangerous, especially when they involve poisonous snakes, and especially when they involve children. And, like FGM, it would be dangerous and bad *anywhere* not just the US.

The only racist people I "know of"(I've never actually met them) seem to be the Mayor or Birmingham and his flunkies, but he's black so I guess it doesn't count.

It really is kind of depressing when the Wikipedia article on your state ends at 1975.  We're actually quite modern, but no, I doubt that's what zack means, she probably means that since we're not snooty hooty tooty like the bloody New Yorkers(my sister has been there several times and said that they are typically very rude to out of towners) or whatever that we're backward and hickish.  We get CNN and all the major networks, it's not months or years before the new fashions show up at the various stores that deal in them.  In fact I can think of nothing that is not within a reasonable driving distance if I need it.  OH! And we have fresh air any time you need it!

Your counter to "southerners are primitive" is "northerners are rude"? Really? BTW, I'm a southerner too (and I've brought this up before), so I'm not just playing off secondhand stereotypes. You've never met a racist? Ever? The only one you've known of is the Mayor of Birmingham? Then you're very naive. I grew up in a town where the black/white line was Main St, and a realtor didn't want to sell us a house because our last name sounded black.

Welcome to the real America, things aren't all apple pie and ice cream.

zack, your example of the realtor is rare I suspect, though I can't speak about NC, I have only been there once and it seemed...off somehow.  

Also, the membership of sects that practice snake handling is measured in the hundreds, it is by no means mainstream or common.  It's a bit like saying Voodoo worship is a major world religion.

*edit*
Yes I meant Comrade Langford.  I don't know many racist people at all, though I suppose it's because I try to judge people on the basis of they're character live I've always been taught.

[iamzack]

Trashman said immigrants are primitive and isolate themselves, I showed him primitive and isolated Americans. Someone else said some immigrants are sexist/racist, I showed him sexist and racist Americans.

I feel like I should go pull any of a hundred articles from all over the countries of instances of blatant racism, but I feel like you'd probably say something like "those are just isolated incidents! I've never directly experienced racism, therefore, it doesn't exist!"