Author Topic: glide mode?  (Read 3005 times)

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Offline torc

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hello dudes!  :yes: will be implemented the glide mode and the reverse thrust in the game? thanks in advance
indossare una divisa può avere un prezzo alto...ma a volte...è troppo alto!!! Bill Adama

 

Offline The E

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No, of course not. Why would the developers implement the one feature that is absolutely necessary (and the only way) for recreating the flight model seen in the series?

Note: This post was brought to you by sarcasm.
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Offline Sushi

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Glide / thrust in Diaspora will work similarly to how it does in the BTRL Demo. But a bit better. :)

 

Offline torc

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tanks for the (sarsastic) answer ;) acrually, i think BTRL  flight  is the best  control of all space sims (x3 series and spaceforce sucks)
indossare una divisa può avere un prezzo alto...ma a volte...è troppo alto!!! Bill Adama

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Will you also use thrusters like the Starfury in TBP in addition to the gliding?

 

Offline karajorma

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Yes.

The best way to get an idea what the physics will be like in Diaspora is simply to play BtRL (again).
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Fury

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So you will also use slide as well as glide? From what I've seen, AI has big troubles using slide and glide intelligently.

AI does not try to maximize velocity prior to using glide, meaning gliding velocity can be anything between min and max velocity of the craft in question. So by average gliding velocity is quite a bit lower than maximum forward thrust, making AI far easier target to shoot down. AI also does not seem to have any clue that afterburner can increase gliding velocity, unless it does so by pure accident. In standard FS2 velocities this is quite a problem, but might not be quite as bad in Diaspora assuming velocities are higher. Either way, AI is incompetent at using glide due to velocity issues.

Sliding has similar problems but more serious. Usually sliding is used as maneuvering thrusters that do not have as much thrust as main engines. Unfortunately AI makes no difference between these. Meaning AI will attempt to use sliding at the most inconvenient times, usually resulting said AI controlled craft getting swiftly killed because it was sliding slowly as if using main engines. FS2 velocities + sliding = turkey shoot.

The only exception is where you have sliding velocities and acceleration equal to main thrust. This makes AI extremely hard opponent.

 

Offline newman

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Can't tell you about specifics (as I'm but a simple 3d guy) but I can tell you that AI in what we got looks  pretty good to me. Raiders aren't easy to shoot down and the maneuvers they pull - glide included - are pretty good and make sense. So you don't have a feeling they're just hard to shoot down because of their thin profile, but because of their flying.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 11:15:34 am by newman »
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Offline Sushi

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So you will also use slide as well as glide? From what I've seen, AI has big troubles using slide and glide intelligently.

Ouch. :p Is it really that bad?  :sigh:

Specific ideas on how to make them better (as well as specific things that Definitely Don't Work) are welcome... but that's probably best left for another forum/PM/Mantis/whatever. :p

The sliding/sidethrust in Diaspora, like BTRL, has a low max velocity but very high acceleration. Meaning you can only sidethrust at a fairly low speed, but you reach that speed pretty much instantly. The AI does OK with this IMHO, but I'm sure it could always do better.


 

Offline Fury

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Glide: AI shouldn't use glide if velocity is below 80% of maximum velocity. In addition it should try to use afterburner before using glide.
Slide: Much more difficult because so much depends on what kind of specs sliding has on given ship. No matter what, best evasion is always through maximum possible velocity. At the moment AI simply doesn't seem to realize that 20m/s sliding is inferior to 80m/s forward thrust if you want to evade.

 

Offline Sushi

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Glide: AI shouldn't use glide if velocity is below 80% of maximum velocity. In addition it should try to use afterburner before using glide.

I'll take it under consideration. :) To be honest, I have yet to see the AI use glide at low speeds: most of the places that trigger glide behavior imply that the ship is already moving pretty fast. But then again, almost all of my testing has been done in a Diaspora context, where ships have pretty high accelerations.

Slide: Much more difficult because so much depends on what kind of specs sliding has on given ship. No matter what, best evasion is always through maximum possible velocity. At the moment AI simply doesn't seem to realize that 20m/s sliding is inferior to 80m/s forward thrust if you want to evade.
Yes, but right now, the AI doesn't really use slide to evade... at least not in any of the code I added. The only place I've added new slide behavior is for "circle strafe," which is more of an offensive move than a defensive one. The idea behind circle strafe is that sliding is used to provide some level of evasion, but the primary goal is to keep the target in front and pound them. The current logic for triggering that is based on $Circle Strafe Percent and the relationship between current target speed and max sidethrust speed: the AI won't attempt it if the target is moving faster than they can sidethrust.

In fact, the new glide moves are primarily offensive as well. Both glide attack (glide vs fighters) and glide strafe (glide vs capships) make the ship an easier target in exchange for more offensive capability.

It is certainly true that glide/slide behaviors work a lot better on some ships than others: generally, fast nimble ships work decently well, while bombers & other slow moving/turning ships end up looking stupid. Best way to work around that at the moment is to use different sets of AI classes for ships that "should" and "shouldn't" use glide/slide. And hopefully I'll be able to improve all of the new behaviors and make them more useful and flexible..thanks for the feedback!

 

Offline Ace

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For a while Heavy Raiders were using slide a lot to dodge, but it didn't work too well since the thrust values are so low.

Anyway, the AI does use them, much better than in BtRL, and we're tweaking it to make the AI feel like the show.
Ace
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