[Bobboau]

I'm poor and have no insurance feel as il as you want

[MR_T3D]

I'll say it, I don't think they should have to.
if you can't afford treatment you are just making it harder for the people who can.

this whole healthcare mess is a reason I am damn glad to be canadian, where I don't have to worry about going broke because i have, say, cancer.

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

[Black Wolf]

I'll say it, I don't think they should have to.
if you can't afford treatment you are just making it harder for the people who can.

Coming at this from the perspective of a country with a fairly good free public health system, that kinda attitude blows me away. If you can't afford health care, then in a first world country the government should be bloody well paying for it for you. They're the government. That's what they're for, and the fact that that's not only not acknowledged in america, but that it's somehow considered anti patriotic to hold a view like that... honestly, I can not understand you guys.

And because MR T3D started it...

Australians all let us rejoice
For we are young and free
We've golden soil and wealth for toil,
Our home is girt* by sea:
Our land abounds in nature's gifts
Of beauty rich and rare,
In history's page let every stage
Advance Australia fair,
In joyful strains then let us sing
Advance Australia fair.



*That's right *****es - we're girt, and proud of it.

[iamzack]

I'm poor and have no insurance feel as il as you want

So why is it that you think only wealthy people are worth saving?

[Mars]

aka, in your mind, is the amount of money you have, or that you make, roughly proportional to your worth as a person, or as a component of society if you'd like.

[Unknown Target]

Bob, under the new health care system, if you can't afford it you get subsidies. It's only if you choose not to buy it when you can afford it that you'll get fined.

By the way, it was originally a Republican idea, as it still has private insurers doling out the insurance.

[Liberator]

They're the government. That's what they're for...

BlackWolf, in the USA, The Tenth Amendment would disagree with you.

[mxlm]

Most conservatives just avoid the question.

* mxlm coughs

[Inquisitor]

Shocking.

[Blue Lion]

They're the government. That's what they're for...

BlackWolf, in the USA, The Tenth Amendment would disagree with you.

It also tends to agree with him somewhat

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

[Liberator]

The Preamble has no binding legal force and is little more than a summary for the document that follows.  This is basic civics stuff people.

[General Battuta]

While it may be basic, it's also been steadily going the way of the dodo since before the Civil War.

Whether or not you think this is a good thing is up to your personal leanings.

[mxlm]

The Preamble has no binding legal force and is little more than a summary for the document that follows.  This is basic civics stuff people.

Basic civility involves answering questions that are posed to you, good sir (yes, yes, I know civility and civics aren't the same thing).

Or at least telling the questioner to **** off.

[Blue Lion]

The Preamble has no binding legal force and is little more than a summary for the document that follows.  This is basic civics stuff people.

Says the guy who quotes the 10th amendment as a response to what the government is for.

[SpardaSon21]

Pelosi once got asked at a press conference where the government got its power to do regulate health care in this way in the Constitution.  Her answer was unbelievable considering she is Speaker of the House: "Are you serious? Are you serious?"  She didn't even bother to pull some random justification out of her ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xYCqRhXawc

[General Battuta]

Well, frankly I understand her incredulity, given that the government has for a very long time possessed a lot of powers not strictly granted to it in the Constitution.

But this is clearly not some kind of exclusively liberal problem, because the Bush administration took major steps to expand government power and reinterpret the Constitution as a 'living document'.

[Liberator]

Ok, let's play a game of poker.  The rules are alive!  So I, as Dealer, say that a pair of dueces beats everything, after I've drawn a pair of dueces.  That's essentially what is being said by people who advocate that the Constitution is a living document whose interpretation must change with the times.  That's bullcrap, and it's being shoveled by people who know there little provision would never stand the test to become a constitutional amendment which is the only way to change the constitution.

[General Battuta]

So are you criticizing the Bush administration or health care policy?

The 'living document' thing was a big element of the Bush legal strategy. Not so much Obama.

[SpardaSon21]

Well, frankly I understand her incredulity, given that the government has for a very long time possessed a lot of powers not strictly granted to it in the Constitution.

But this is clearly not some kind of exclusively liberal problem, because the Bush administration took major steps to expand government power and reinterpret the Constitution as a 'living document'.

And you are okay with the government having all those powers not granted to it by the Constitution?  Are you saying that just because it has been happening for a while, it is okay?

And yes, the Bush administration did this as well.  Do you think I am any happier about that?

[Nuclear1]

Believe it or not, the Constitution is not God.

Times change--the Constitution changes with it.  It's why we have the amendments.  No one in 1787 could have seen the United States becoming what it is now, or how far technology has come.  

You know what, forget the Constitution for a second.  All government exists in it's most basic form to protect life, liberty, and property.  When the government has the resources to do so, does it make any sense for it to sit back and allow the single greatest threat to the lives of its citizens run rampant?  

What I'm seeing is a lot of people are hating on the healthcare reform bill on principle alone, and it's clear that a lot of them are grasping at straws now (and have been for a long time).  "It's socialism!"  Yeah, so what?  "Socialism leads to communism!"  Tell that to the UK, France, and Canada.  "It's going to bankrupt the US!"  Actually reduces the deficit by $138 billion over a decade.  "It's going to tell me what doctor to see!"  Not true.  "It's unconstitutional!"  Prove it.  

Healthcare proponets have been more than reasonable when it comes to explaining this **** to the other side, and frankly I'm getting tired of being called liberal elitist scum because I give a damn about other people.