Author Topic: Proposition (Relentless)  (Read 14147 times)

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Offline Deka1184

  • 26
  • Formerly known as KappaWing
Re: Proposition (Relentless)
Spoiler:

You military isn't really acting like the military
- you got ships shooting at other ships without having a positive ID. In fact, you have ships opening fire simply because another unindentified ship asked them to. The Snipes thing. You'd  think he had an IFF on that fighter.
- Ordering execution not only for minor infringements, but also something the commander couldn't see coming or do anything about it (AWACS destroyed by supernova)? And then giving that same commander who's execution you ordered (and who knows it) a fleet under his command and sending him off?
- the player even following with the moronic rebellion
- the GTVA actually agreeing to handing an Orion over to the pirates
etc..

- Pirates having a vast amount of resources without any explanation
- a single small transport (elyisum..that thing can't carry more than two dozen marines) capturing a Orion destroyer..the same Orion destroyer just standing there waiting to be captured and NOT wasting the transport and the frigate with his beams
- pirates having a secret high-tech frigate
- pirates retrofitting an Orion into a super-destroyer within days..with no shipyards to boot
etc..



Spoiler:
thats not really a plothole. The CO of the leviathan that shot the elysium was doing so under extreme pressure/impulse, as he might have heard about the mind control incident that happened to the vasudans and thought he was doing the right thing

the snipes thing, well, snipes was likely undercover posing as one of them, so because their communication from high command was cut off since the pirates attacked the arcadia (as explainined in ingame messages) the IFF status did not correct. Also, its against BETAC to shoot escape pods anyway, so of course the CO of the Kiev would react to save the pod.

the player doesent really have a choice to follow the moronic rebellion or not, since by the time he finds out about the rebellion he is stuck in a shivan infested system as part of the rebel squadron, so the only other non-shivans in system, the Vasudans, wouldent have much sympathy for A1. Not much of a choice there.

The option for GTVA would either be to hand over the Orion or lose a Hecate and all its crew. Pretty logical, if you ask me.

There is an explanation for the pirates having a vast amount of resources. In one of the breifings or somewhere it mentions stuff about the GTVA not being able to control pirate activity since it has been fighting the NTF and the Shivans.

An Elysium can very well capture an orion destroyer. A similar event happens with an Isis and a Hoover in Stormfront. An elysium is actually pretty big and can carry at least 80 or so men with still plenty of space for the ship's subsytstems, etc. 80 elite marines against 5-10000 unarmed men with no combat training, demoralized under a wacko C.O.? they wouldn't have much trouble.

They were hiding the frigate in an asteroid belt which also had a lot of interference from the planets magnetic fields and all the moons and crap. its all in the briefings and stuff.

the quick refitting of the orion.... yeah, i admit that one was a stretch, only cuz idk how they build a whole nother chunk on it without a shipyard, since the shipyard was destroyed in a previous mission. touche'! If I make a sequel, i will come up with an explanation for that.

cmon people, my inbox is empty. i take it you guys, despite the "vocal" crowd, are actually satisfied with the mod, or you're not satisfied and also not interested in improving it, which goes against what a few ppl have told me in private.

 :bump:

 

Offline Vrets

  • 27
potentially unhelpful advice
The consensus seems to be that it would be advisable to begin anew, incorporating any lessons you might have learned, rather than attempting to retrofit your existing work.

It seems silly to ask for "26 FREDers", a veritable army, to fix one man's flawed opus. Those people would probably rather dabble in fresh ideas of their own.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 08:00:33 pm by Vrets »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
Deka1184, with FREDders at a premium in the community today, you probably can't just expect volunteers to help out with your mod. Even Blue Planet, one of the biggest 'groundswell' projects that picked up a team due to popularity, isn't anywhere near that size.

What you can expect, though, is better testers and feedback. I think lots of people would be happy to help with that.

 

Offline High Max

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
;-)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 11:31:47 pm by High Max »
;-)   #.#   *_*   ^^   ^-^   ^_^

 

Offline Deka1184

  • 26
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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
I really wasn't thinking I'd get anywhere near 26, i was just throwing out an ideal for examples sake.

Really 2-4 would be all I need. But I suppose even that is too much to ask.

But yeah might as well lock the topic since I've already stated quite a few times im not gonna fix it all myself. It was just an idea.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
Spoiler:

he snipes thing, well, snipes was likely undercover posing as one of them, so because their communication from high command was cut off since the pirates attacked the arcadia (as explainined in ingame messages) the IFF status did not correct. Also, its against BETAC to shoot escape pods anyway, so of course the CO of the Kiev would react to save the pod.

The option for GTVA would either be to hand over the Orion or lose a Hecate and all its crew. Pretty logical, if you ask me.

There is an explanation for the pirates having a vast amount of resources. In one of the breifings or somewhere it mentions stuff about the GTVA not being able to control pirate activity since it has been fighting the NTF and the Shivans.

An Elysium can very well capture an orion destroyer. A similar event happens with an Isis and a Hoover in Stormfront. An elysium is actually pretty big and can carry at least 80 or so men with still plenty of space for the ship's subsytstems, etc. 80 elite marines against 5-10000 unarmed men with no combat training, demoralized under a wacko C.O.? they wouldn't have much trouble.

They were hiding the frigate in an asteroid belt which also had a lot of interference from the planets magnetic fields and all the moons and crap. its all in the briefings and stuff.

Spoiler:
The whole snipes thing makes no sense.
He was hunting a lone escape pod. Why pose as anyone? Why have a permenatly removed IFF instead of a nearly turned off one (so you can turn it on)?
Snipes even told them he was SOC.
Did they say "everyone cut your engines till we sort this out"? That would be a logical course of action. No, they continue shooting.

And no, if it was an Argo..maaaybe.
Orions have armed marines on them, they have weapon lockers and they have ship weapons that they don't use to shoot down the Elysium. Trained military personnel > pirates.
The Orion just WAITS there, even tough there's nothing preventing it from escaping. Also, the Hecate has its' guns operational.

And ye, I wasn't wondering how they kept the Frigate hidden - that is perfectly fine. How they built such high-tech frigate in the first place is the big question.
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
I think you'd be better of to just make a new campaign, keep it short, like 8 missions max. Then when you have those missions, make a thread for playtesting and get a few people to look at what you have. Then polish and bug test it from there.

Completely fixing up your broken campaign that has like 20 missions or so seems like a daunting task and experienced Fredders (as Battuta already pointed out) are not easy to come by. Especially when you say that the SEXP's are arranged in such a way that they would only make sense to you.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
I admittedly haven't played the campaign yet, but I don't see why there's any reason to advise Deka to just start from scratch.  Why not just bugfix the mechanical FRED-related problems and leave the rest as-is?  There may be some issues with plot points, but this would hardly be the first campaign to exhibit that.  If Deka doesn't want to rewrite the entire campaign, then he shouldn't feel like he has to.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
I admittedly haven't played the campaign yet, but I don't see why there's any reason to advise Deka to just start from scratch.  Why not just bugfix the mechanical FRED-related problems and leave the rest as-is?  There may be some issues with plot points, but this would hardly be the first campaign to exhibit that.  If Deka doesn't want to rewrite the entire campaign, then he shouldn't feel like he has to.
Then I suggest you play the campaign first before you post?
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

  

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
My position wouldn't change even if I had.  It's completely counterproductive to do nothing but suggest that Deka completely re-do the entire project when he clearly has no interest in doing so.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
My position wouldn't change even if I had.  It's completely counterproductive to do nothing but suggest that Deka completely re-do the entire project when he clearly has no interest in doing so.
New campaign =/= remaking this one?
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
...wait, what?  Deka has stated that he's interested in getting the issues in this release ironed out, and possibly making a sequel someday.  Yet I've now seen several people instead suggest that he just remake the entire campaign from scratch, or even make a completely-new one, which doesn't seem like incredibly-productive advice when that's not what's being asked in the first place.

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
Well, he's said repeatedly he's not going to fix it himself...so someone suggested just making a brand new, much shorter campaign instead of fixing this 20+ mission one.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
He said he's not going to "fix it ALL on his own". Not the all. For me that looks like he wants to fix it, but only if he gets help in doing so.

 

Offline High Max

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
;-)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 11:32:01 pm by High Max »
;-)   #.#   *_*   ^^   ^-^   ^_^

 

Offline High Max

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
;-)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 11:32:32 pm by High Max »
;-)   #.#   *_*   ^^   ^-^   ^_^

 

Offline Deka1184

  • 26
  • Formerly known as KappaWing
Re: Proposition (Relentless)
High Max, trust me. I skipped out on the crazy shivan madness early on, but it comes back later.

I didn't not go to that system out of laziness. I just don't believe the GTVA are stupid enough to make the exact same mistake twice.

 

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: Proposition (Relentless)
Let's consider the FS2 campaign for a moment:
The GTVA beat back the initial Shivan thrust and went into the nebula. Then the Ravana showed them that it was a mistake.
After they destroyed the Ravana, they went back in again. The Sathanas #1 showed them it was a mistake.
After they took down the Sath, they went back in yet again. And we all know what happened next.

So your argument should more be like, "I don't think the GTVA are stupid enough to make the same mistake a fourth time."  :P

 

Offline TopAce

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Re: Proposition (Relentless)
They way I interpret FS2, it didn't matter what the GTVA was doing. 80 juggernauts were on the way to take care of them.
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I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

 

Offline Deka1184

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  • Formerly known as KappaWing
Re: Proposition (Relentless)
Well, in the cases of the Rav and Sath, the Colossus alone could beat either of those. The entire GTVA fleet could not challenge 80 juggernauts.