[General Battuta]

Sushi is right.

Also a lot of you are simplifying things. People are way more complex than this... at most, your angry about isolated incidents because they get the spotlight. It amazes me that all the talk I see here about the intolerance of Christians and I see more intolerance from people posting here on these forums, all based on generalizations.

It's like Anne Coulter in Ottawa saying all terrorists are Muslims. It's both intolerant and wrong. The common thread between all this isn't some religious text. The common thread is we're all humans.

Actually I think a lot of the sentiments in this thread have been along the lines of 'all systems can be turned to evil', not just religion.

[bobbtmann]

It's like Anne Coulter in Ottawa saying all terrorists are Muslims. It's both intolerant and wrong. The common thread between all this isn't some religious text. The common thread is we're all humans.

Just nitpicking a bit here, remembering something Shamil Basayev said in regards to the Beslan massacre: "This is a war between the descendants of monkeys, about whom your Darwin wrote, and the descendants of Adam, glory be to Allah."

Well, I expect that Shamil Basayev was also human. Humans have a nack for associating themselves with a particular community and then hating or competing with other ones.
EDIT: Then we seem to be on the same page, Battuta

[StarSlayer]

Sushi is right.

Also a lot of you are simplifying things. People are way more complex than this... at most, your angry about isolated incidents because they get the spotlight. It amazes me that all the talk I see here about the intolerance of Christians and I see more intolerance from people posting here on these forums, all based on generalizations.

It's like Anne Coulter in Ottawa saying all terrorists are Muslims. It's both intolerant and wrong. The common thread between all this isn't some religious text. The common thread is we're all humans.

Actually I think a lot of the sentiments in this thread have been along the lines of 'all systems can be turned to evil', not just religion.

Could you turn a hippie movement violent?  Sure.

Though I would wager few other systems have the ability to indoctrinate its followers into zealots like religion.  Religion has the ability to rile people up into thinking they are serving divine will, that all the atrocities they commit will be forgiven and that everlasting rewards await them if they die for the cause.  Religion already requires a certain amount of "taking it on faith" it's much easier to take a system like that and push its members into blindly following without question then say a system grounded entirely on fact.  Not to mention that religion is one of those things you can drive people to hate each other intangibles.

[Thaeris]

I remember a quote somewhere of how women were supposed to keep silent, or something. I think that was from the New Testament, too. And as we all know, oppression leads to violence. And usually the violence is directed from the oppressor towards the oppressed.

And Thaeris, I'd like to point out that nobody follows the bible to the letter. They pick and choose the parts that suite them. Jesus can say love they neighbor. But if someone gets uncomfortable at the thought of gay men then they listen to Leviticus rather than Jesus.

I'm not going to contest the latter point, as that's what people do (I'll also note that I pretty much said the same thing earlier). What they forget when doing such things, however, is that now they also commit sin when they judge others and weigh the superficial "order-of-magnitude" of sin of what they're about to do to others against whatever transgression the target individual has commited... I know that's a bit of a mouthful...

On the prior point... That's Paul for you.  

Paul was formerly a Pharisee and certainly had various cultural views present in his doctorine, the place of women was undoubtably amongst them. I hate to seem hypocritical about this, but I'd take that with a grain of salt in today's culture and more so understand that statements like that one were focused on promoting working community/relationship dynamics, not surpressing women (at least intentionally). Of all New Testament personalities, Paul is probably the most opinionated.

[bobbtmann]

Could you turn a hippie movement violent?  Sure.

Though I would wager few other systems have the ability to indoctrinate its followers into zealots like religion.  Religion has the ability to rile people up into thinking they are serving divine will, that all the atrocities they commit will be forgiven and that everlasting rewards await them if they die for the cause.  Religion already requires a certain amount of "taking it on faith" it's much easier to take a system like that and push its members into blindly following without question then say a system grounded entirely on fact.  Not to mention that religion is one of those things you can drive people to hate each other intangibles.

The same could be said for patriotism 

[TESLA]

Could you turn a hippie movement violent?  Sure.

Though I would wager few other systems have the ability to indoctrinate its followers into zealots like religion.  Religion has the ability to rile people up into thinking they are serving divine will, that all the atrocities they commit will be forgiven and that everlasting rewards await them if they die for the cause.  Religion already requires a certain amount of "taking it on faith" it's much easier to take a system like that and push its members into blindly following without question then say a system grounded entirely on fact.  Not to mention that religion is one of those things you can drive people to hate each other intangibles.

The same could be said for patriotism 

Very true!!! Or nationalism

[Nemesis6]

Patriotism/nationalism - If you don't like 'murica, you can geeeyat out! You're either with us or you're against us!
Racism - If you don't hate blacks, you're a race-traitor.

ISMs seem to be mostly bad... Hooray for Atheism being the exception. Then again, that's because Atheism, by definition, is nothing, I guess.

[bobbtmann]

Patriotism/nationalism - If you don't like 'murica, you can geeeyat out! You're either with us or you're against us!
Racism - If you don't hate blacks, you're a race-traitor.

ISMs seem to be mostly bad... Hooray for Atheism being the exception. Then again, that's because Atheism, by definition, is nothing, I guess.

I don't think even atheism is immune to it.

[Klaustrophobia]

case in point: this thread.

[iamzack]

atheism is a lot easier to understand than religionism (i made up a word!)

there's no proof of a god -> there's probably no god -> belief that there is no god

vs

there's no proof of a god -> there's probably no god -> belief that there is a god

[TESLA]

atheism is a lot easier to understand than religionism (i made up a word!)

there's no proof of a god -> there's probably no god -> belief that there is no god

vs

there's no proof of a god -> there's probably no god -> belief that there is a god

What has that got to do with anything?

[Turambar]

no idea.  maybe because it's impossible to find a quote in 'atheism' that says its ok to kill people for certain things, mostly because there isn't an 'atheism.'

[bobbtmann]

I think this thread was more about debating whether or not one group of human beings is more predisposed towards violence than another group. Not so much about the merits of atheism vs the merits of institutionalised religion.

p.s. I'm doing a research paper on masculinity and violence. Turns out in modern western society there is a group of humans that is more violent than another: males. But that's a discussion for another thread.

[Turambar]

I think violence can be greatly reduced by the legalization, distribution, and moderate usage of marijuana.

[Mongoose]

no idea.  maybe because it's impossible to find a quote in 'atheism' that says its ok to kill people for certain things, mostly because there isn't an 'atheism.'

There is such a thing as "militant atheism," though.  The statements of individuals like Richard Dawkins could very easily be spun into a radicalized creed of beliefs, just as Christianity was spun into such by the individuals in the original post.  In this thread.  The bottom line here is, as multiple people have pointed out, no form of grouping is immune.

[Ford Prefect]

I think violence can be greatly reduced by the legalization, distribution, and moderate usage of marijuana.

Hallucinogens, too. Nobody comes back from a solid DMT trip with his or her convictions intact.

[iamzack]

no idea.  maybe because it's impossible to find a quote in 'atheism' that says its ok to kill people for certain things, mostly because there isn't an 'atheism.'

There is such a thing as "militant atheism," though.  The statements of individuals like Richard Dawkins could very easily be spun into a radicalized creed of beliefs, just as Christianity was spun into such by the individuals in the original post.  In this thread.  The bottom line here is, as multiple people have pointed out, no form of grouping is immune.

When's the last time Dawkins suggested killing other people was a good way to solve conflict?

[Kopachris]

Patriotism/nationalism - If you don't like 'murica, you can geeeyat out! You're either with us or you're against us!
Racism - If you don't hate blacks, you're a race-traitor.

ISMs seem to be mostly bad... Hooray for Atheism being the exception. Then again, that's because Atheism, by definition, is nothing, I guess.

I don't think even atheism is immune to it.

I'd like to bring more attention to this point, though I'd rather not take a side on it.  I prefer to watch people argue rather than do the arguing, but there is a point to be had.  A lot of atheists I know are under the impression of "religion is evil, we should get rid of it entirely".  It wouldn't be hard to stretch that to extremes (in the case of a group of zealots) and say "religious people are evil, we should get rid of them all to protect everyone else".

Those who are reading this thread may find this interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_Faith_and_science

[iamzack]

When's the last time someone was murdered in the name of atheism?

And, yes, atheists tend to talk about killing religion, but how many famous atheists call for killing religious people?

"militant atheist" bah!

Meanwhile, our prisons are disproportionately filled with religious people, and we can't go a week without somebody killing in the name of their religion.

[Thaeris]

When's the last time someone was murdered in the name of atheism?

And, yes, atheists tend to talk about killing religion, but how many famous atheists call for killing religious people?

"militant atheist" bah!

Meanwhile, our prisons are disproportionately filled with religious people, and we can't go a week without somebody killing in the name of their religion.

Uhh, communist revolutionaries ring a bell?