[Turambar]

this is when religious people like to bring up stalin and mao, or even claim that hitler was an atheist.  unfortunately, it's a bit irrelevent because they were killing for their own ends and power, not because the people they were killing were religious.  Also, they weren't using atheism as a tool to get others to do their killing.

[Thaeris]

this is when religious people like to bring up stalin and mao, or even claim that hitler was an atheist.  unfortunately, it's a bit irrelevent because they were killing for their own ends and power, not because the people they were killing were religious.  Also, they weren't using atheism as a tool to get others to do their killing.

Well, seeing as Marxist philosophy often includes tenants derived from the philosophy of Karl Marx including such things as, oh...

"RELIGION IS THE OPIATE OF THE PEOPLE"

...and thus makes for an unproductive state, etc., yeah, atheism does in fact factor into a reason for killing people.

It's also key to remember that the maniacal leader does have subordinates, who have their own subordinates, etc., etc... These people often share similarly extreme and often further abstracted beliefs based on those of the leader...

...After all (as an abstract argument), Buddha never claimed to be a deity, yet some forms of Buddhism view him as such. The leader is nothing without the subordinate - devoted followers make the world go round (and fill the mass graves as well).

I want a better argment than the one you've given.

[Scotty]

When's the last time someone was murdered in the name of atheism?

And, yes, atheists tend to talk about killing religion, but how many famous atheists call for killing religious people?

"militant atheist" bah!

Meanwhile, our prisons are disproportionately filled with religious people, and we can't go a week without somebody killing in the name of their religion.

When's the last time someone was murdered for money?  For status?  I imagine that some atheists can and have killed people, if not directly because the people were religious.  The problem isn't religion, it's the random retards who claim to follow a religion and do stupid **** like killing people.  That can happen with any group.

[General Battuta]

This is aimless.

We're a FreeSpace community. Does this in any way help that? No. Does it possibly harm it? Yes.

Let's derail this thread to a new topic. I say we close GenDisc and ban political/religious discussions. Many other successful community forums have this policy.

[iamzack]

what's freespace

[jdjtcagle]

It would be nice to get along... I tire of the same angry arguments. That NEVER get anywhere except an arbitrary line between the psycho deist and rational atheist.

[Scotty]

This is aimless.

We're a FreeSpace community. Does this in any way help that? No. Does it possibly harm it? Yes.

Let's derail this thread to a new topic. I say we close GenDisc and ban political/religious discussions. Many other successful community forums have this policy.

That's why this is in the Non-FreeSpace discussion forum.  While many other successful community forums have the policy of banning political/religious discussion, it does not follow that the ban has any bearing on that.  We may be a FreeSpace community, but the people who visit it obviously do not want to talk about solely FreeSpace.  I mean no offense when I say this, but if you dislike the political/religious bickering, you could always just abstain from GD.  That would serve the same purpose on an individual level, rather than closing any possibility of discussion not related to FreeSpace for everyone.

It would be nice to get along... I tire of the same angry arguments. That NEVER get anywhere except an arbitrary line between the psycho deist and rational atheist.

I beg your pardon?

[jdjtcagle]

I beg your pardon?

Did I stutta? 

[Thaeris]

Personally, what makes the HLP such a fascinating place is that we're open to discussion of all sorts, for better or for worse even. Even through our disagreements, these subjects do tend to expand our horizons and teach us about each other - the HLP is a pretty tight-knit community because we know so much about each other and how we feel about issues. This is much more than a forum about a decade+ old space sim.

[Scotty]

I beg your pardon?

Did I stutta? 

Just a little put off by the lumping in with the "psycho deist" crowd.

[General Battuta]

This is aimless.

We're a FreeSpace community. Does this in any way help that? No. Does it possibly harm it? Yes.

Let's derail this thread to a new topic. I say we close GenDisc and ban political/religious discussions. Many other successful community forums have this policy.

That's why this is in the Non-FreeSpace discussion forum.  While many other successful community forums have the policy of banning political/religious discussion, it does not follow that the ban has any bearing on that.  We may be a FreeSpace community, but the people who visit it obviously do not want to talk about solely FreeSpace.  I mean no offense when I say this, but if you dislike the political/religious bickering, you could always just abstain from GD.  That would serve the same purpose on an individual level, rather than closing any possibility of discussion not related to FreeSpace for ever

My comfort isn't the issue. The problem is that this is a huge waste of time with no benefit. Run a C/B analysis or a Pascal's gambit: it can't possibly do any good for the community aims and it frequently does harm.

The aim here is not to make me happier with GenDisc, the aim is to close off any possibility of discussion not related to FreeSpace for ever (unless it wasn't a political or religious debate.)

Much nicer that way, I'm starting to think!

[jdjtcagle]

I beg your pardon?

Did I stutta? 

Just a little put off by the lumping in with the "psycho deist" crowd.

I'm sure your not a psycho.

I just can't remember a time I posted here when I didn't feel I wasn't in that crowd. I did bring it upon myself, but whatever I was young and had very different beliefs.

Reputation is like fine china once broken it's very hard to repair. ~ Abraham Lincoln

[Nuclear1]

Noooooo don't close GenDisc!  You'll be ending an era

EDIT:  New topic!  Obama wants to close GenDisc

[NGTM-1R]

The problem is that this is a huge waste of time with no benefit.

So's this entire site. What's your point?

[Kopachris]

this is when religious people like to bring up stalin and mao, or even claim that hitler was an atheist.  unfortunately, it's a bit irrelevent because they were killing for their own ends and power, not because the people they were killing were religious.  Also, they weren't using atheism as a tool to get others to do their killing.

Well, seeing as Marxist philosophy often includes tenants derived from the philosophy of Karl Marx including such things as, oh...

"RELIGION IS THE OPIATE OF THE PEOPLE"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_people

[LordMelvin]

I beg your pardon?

Did I stutta? 

Is What a country? They speak English in What? Say 'what' again, melon-farmer...

[General Battuta]

The problem is that this is a huge waste of time with no benefit.

So's this entire site. What's your point?

This is a tangential waste of time that distracts us from the waste of time we're all here to waste our time on! (Which does have a benefit, at least in terms of our enjoyment.)

Now what would be really meta-silly is if we started wasting time arguing about whether arguing about off-topic things was a waste of time. So I think I'll just pursue this line of inquiry on me own.

[Nuclear1]

* Nuclear1 head asplosion

[Kosh]

this is when religious people like to bring up stalin and mao, or even claim that hitler was an atheist.  unfortunately, it's a bit irrelevent because they were killing for their own ends and power, not because the people they were killing were religious.  Also, they weren't using atheism as a tool to get others to do their killing.

Well, seeing as Marxist philosophy often includes tenants derived from the philosophy of Karl Marx including such things as, oh...

"RELIGION IS THE OPIATE OF THE PEOPLE"

...and thus makes for an unproductive state, etc., yeah, atheism does in fact factor into a reason for killing people.

It's also key to remember that the maniacal leader does have subordinates, who have their own subordinates, etc., etc... These people often share similarly extreme and often further abstracted beliefs based on those of the leader...

...After all (as an abstract argument), Buddha never claimed to be a deity, yet some forms of Buddhism view him as such. The leader is nothing without the subordinate - devoted followers make the world go round (and fill the mass graves as well).

I want a better argment than the one you've given.

The thing to remember is that communism ended up becoming its own religion of a sort, complete with "holy" books, "enlightened" leaders, rampant brainwashing, and general intolerance for other schools of thought.

Now what would be really meta-silly is if we started wasting time arguing about whether arguing about off-topic things was a waste of time. So I think I'll just pursue this line of inquiry on me own.

You can say that about pretty much any human social activity.

Debates are how we learn from others and refine our own ideas, as an academic you should know that.

[General Battuta]

Debates are how we learn from others and refine our own ideas, as an academic you should know that.

Au contraire - debates are generally pointless. As a cognitive scientist, I've learned that humans don't form opinions by rational discourse; we settle on ideas that 'feel right' to us for subconscious reasons, then selectively recruit evidence to confirm our own biases.

After so many years on debate teams and in academia I've learned how futile the whole endeavour is. In many cases debates just entrench existing divides.