[S-99]

If you keep talking like you're Glenn Beck or something I'm just going to move we ban you. It's a useless blanket statement that "I AM SO-AND-SO". Oh yeah? We Are The World! See, I can do them too, and even make them silly puns on '80s song titles.

Can't handle the american shepherd joke? Then don't act like you're a moderator.

True. But that's NIMBY. Maybe you do have a BY ****ING GOLLY AWESOME point here...

No shlit

...false alarm!

First: it doesn't matter what it sounds like. We've presented evidence that it works. If you win, you win, and nothing the public can think or say or do can erase that.

Second: As I already pointed out and you apparently didn't read, the American populace has long experience with terrorists being devalued to criminals. That's why people want Gitmo closed in the first place and have since it opened.

It would make people think lazy, we don't want to put as much effort into it anymore.

Because we put so little effort into tracking down McVeigh, I'm sure. You know, those months of investigative work and showcasing pretty much everything about the FBI that is good didn't happen.

My interpretation is different, even if it totally isn't 100% correct. We're dealing with terrorists in other countries with the american military. Terrorists right now are military targets. Terrorists are as likened to criminals, but the current dealing with them makes them seem to not be. After that, there is a lot of people who have either forgotten or never knew that terrorists are as likened to criminals (thx to the age of censorship, propaganda, and misinformation from the government). Why not spread some propaganda? You'd have american citizens even more paranoid than before that their neighbor might be a terrorist (in which the crack down on terrorism in the home land via citizens would be enhanced). Through this is where the american populace might think lazy. You don't appreciate theory

Yes, because regular American Ordinary Decent Criminals are going to react so well to the terrorists and not shank the everloving hell out of them at the first available opportunity.

You missed my reference to ahmed learning to not drop the soap (of course prisoners are going to be screwing over the terrorists whether it be through crippling them, ****ing them, belittling them, or killing them). But, you're also a little short sighted since this isn't going to happen to all of the terrorists. And for the many terrorists this wouldn't happen to, or even the ones that were already sought after for revenge beatings. What's to stop the terrorists from trying to convert some american prisoners to islam and filling their heads with their ideals?

[NGTM-1R]

Can't handle the american shepherd joke? Then don't act like you're a moderator.

Oh, but I can. In fact, I did handle it. Rather roughly, right there. If you can't handle that... (recursive loops are fun)

No shlit

I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to be trying to bypass the word filter. If you've actually got it turned on, I don't know. Mine's off. If this is just a simple spelling problem and not a case of attempting to be clever, I direct your attention to the freaking spellcheck button that's next to the post preview and only one over from the post button.

My interpretation is different, even if it totally isn't 100% correct. We're dealing with terrorists in other countries with the american military. Terrorists right now are military targets. Terrorists are as likened to criminals, but the current dealing with them makes them seem to not be. After that, there is a lot of people who have either forgotten or never knew that terrorists are as likened to criminals (thx to the age of censorship, propaganda, and misinformation from the government). Why not spread some propaganda? You'd have american citizens even more paranoid than before that their neighbor might be a terrorist (in which the crack down on terrorism in the home land via citizens would be enhanced). Through this is where the american populace might think lazy.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, primarily because it doesn't make a lick of sense.

Are you saying that The Patriot Act and related revocations of civil liberties in the post-9/11 months did not occur or continue after it was decided terrorists were problems for the military?

Are you saying that treating terrorists as criminals will make people think their neighbors are criminals?

Are you saying that you have terrorists as neighbors?

Are you saying that treating terrorists as criminals requires some kind of enhanced powers to the police and therefore there were no enhanced police powers being granted after the the 9/11 attacks, instead restrictions on the rights of citizens and others were actually loosened after all those years where we did treat them as criminals?

Because these are all silly and most of them are demonstrably nonsense, except the one about your neighbors.

Maybe they are terrorists, I wouldn't know.

You don't appreciate theory

When it contradicts fact, damn straight I don't.

You missed my reference to ahmed learning to not drop the soap (of course prisoners are going to be screwing over the terrorists whether it be through crippling them, ****ing them, belittling them, or killing them). But, you're also a little short sighted since this isn't going to happen to all of the terrorists. And for the many terrorists this wouldn't happen to, or even the ones that were already sought after for revenge beatings.

I didn't miss it. I simply didn't find it amusing. And how is not going to happen to them all? The inmates get pretty much all the child molesters who don't get seperated out from General Population, they've got a good track record on delievering "street justice". A terrorist would in fact probably spend their whole prison life in solitary confinement just for their own protection, rendering your whole concept meaningless.

What's to stop the terrorists from trying to convert some american prisoners to islam and filling their heads with their ideals?

Since there are already a significant number of Islamic outreach prison ministries, this is possible. On the other hand, it's also stupid for the reasons I noted. Just because something has non-zero chance of happening does not make it likely.

[Flipside]

If you are innocent then you should not be in jail, end of story, there is no political expediency that can override that in my opinion.

[Aardwolf]

If you are innocent then you should not be in jail, end of story, there is no political expediency that can override that in my opinion.

Agreed.

And unless you're going to be an asshole and claim they don't deserve the same rights we have because they're war criminals / not U.S. citizens / whatever bull**** reason, they're also innocent until proven guilty.

Note: The above comment is not directed at Flipside

For some reason, apparently, anyone suspected of terrorism immediately loses all the rights our constitution gives them (if they're a U.S. citizen), and regardless of whether they're in the U.S. or not when we capture them, somehow makes every single bit of international law be not applicable. And that's not people who're guilty of terrorism, necessarily.

[redsniper]

Well of course, it's because they're witches terrorists.

[Rick James]

In 1942, many Japanese residing in Canada were interred illegally in my home province of Alberta on suspicion--not fact, simple suspicion--that they were acting in league with the Japanese military for the purposes of an eventual invasion of Canada. That claim was, naturally, unfounded. The Japanese are not known to have ever planned an invasion of Canada of any kind. It took some 46 years, but eventually the Canadian government apologized to surviving individuals interred there and made reparations.

Guantanamo is rapidly becoming a political liability for President Obama, who in spite of his supposed lighter, more liberal and progressive approach, has yet to shut that ****ing place down. It's like a boil on his career that will only grow larger, fester, and ooze more problems with time.

[Bobboau]

fun fact Barack 'change' Obama is half way done with his term and everything is exactly the same as when he came in.

[karajorma]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

Yet again

[Nuclear1]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

Yet again

Exacty. Obama's kept a fair number of his campaign promises, it's just that most of the benefits won't be immediately seen, like with HCR or funding the VA.

Everyone on the American left thinks Obama hasn't kept his promises because the ones that draw the most attention--Iraq, Afghanistan, Gitmo, and wiretapping--just haven't been fully fleshed out. 

[General Battuta]

fun fact Barack 'change' Obama is half way done with his term and everything is exactly the same as when he came in.

You must not pay very much attention.

[Galemp]

fun fact Barack 'change' Obama is half way done with his term and everything is exactly the same as when he came in.

Wow, it's almost as if there were some... other political force... that wanted to stop him. Such a party would be able to score points if he couldn't meet his campaign promises, but who would sacrifice the good of the country for their own political ends??

[SpardaSon21]

fun fact Barack 'change' Obama is half way done with his term and everything is exactly the same as when he came in.

Wow, it's almost as if there were some... other political force... that wanted to stop him. Such a party would be able to score points if he couldn't meet his campaign promises, but who would sacrifice the good of the country for their own political ends??

Anyone in Washington, D.C. I suppose.

[Liberator]

It's not that it's unpopular, it's that they were using its position outside of the US to deny detainees their basic human rights.  That's a bad move, eroding our own moral high ground.

Yes I realize I'm quoting an old post.  I just started reading this thread, but I thought this needed saying since Tura doesn't understand(again).

The detainees at Gitmo are not there to deny their rights.  They get "3 hots and a cot" prepared to meet the standards required by their religion.  They are allowed to meet all the other requirements as well, provided a copy of the Koran(probably didn't spell it right).

The reason they are there is because the vast majority of them are not American Nationals.  Therefore they do not have a right to access American civil law proceedings.  This is something you need to remember, these are not common criminals who killed a couple of people.  These are enemies of the United States of America who were engaged in open hostilities with us.  The reason they are there is because if they weren't there, they'd be in or going to Iraq to kill our men and women over there.  Or planning another bombing.  What if they were to detonate a large bomb in the Chunnel or crash a plane into Big Ben?  Or the Eiffel Tower?

They're there because if they would be dead.

[Galemp]

The reason they are there is because the vast majority of them are not American Nationals.  Therefore they do not have a right to access American civil law proceedings.  This is something you need to remember, these are not common criminals who killed a couple of people.  These are enemies of the United States of America who were engaged in open hostilities with us.  The reason they are there is because if they weren't there, they'd be in or going to Iraq to kill our men and women over there.  Or planning another bombing.  What if they were to detonate a large bomb in the Chunnel or crash a plane into Big Ben?  Or the Eiffel Tower?

They're there because if they would be dead.

Actually the police in the London and Madrid bombings managed to handle things quite well without resorting to torture or causing an international human rights scandal.

[General Battuta]

The reason they are there is because the vast majority of them are not American Nationals.  Therefore they do not have a right to access American civil law proceedings.  This is something you need to remember, these are not common criminals who killed a couple of people.

Actually, all terrorists are common criminals who killed a couple of people.

 These are enemies of the United States of America who were engaged in open hostilities with us.

Stop supporting the terrorist. PR and legitimacy are the biggest gifts you can give them. 

The reason they are there is because if they weren't there, they'd be in or going to Iraq to kill our men and women over there.  Or planning another bombing.  What if they were to detonate a large bomb in the Chunnel or crash a plane into Big Ben?  Or the Eiffel Tower?

No, actually, you can't prove that most of the detainees would be doing this because they haven't gone to trial to determine their guilt.

Seriously. Look at the word. TERRORISM.

Why are you terrified of them when their goal is clearly to terrify you? You're one of the most successful targets of terrorism I've ever seen.

[Liberator]

PR and legitimacy are the biggest gifts you can give them. 

No the biggest gift I can legally give them is a 5000lb bunker buster.  Though I suppose a Fuel/Air Bomb would be adequate to express my feelings as well.

[General Battuta]

PR and legitimacy are the biggest gifts you can give them.  

No the biggest gift I can legally give them is a 5000lb bunker buster.  Though I suppose a Fuel/Air Bomb would be adequate to express my feelings as well.

And again, the US military has been cutting down on the use of such tactics because it does more harm than good. You know what does do some good? Good old police work.

Get it through your head. Terrorists are filthy, pathetic criminals, not villains out of Star Wars.

They don't deserve your respect or your fear.

I assume you'll just ignore the rest of my post, par for the course by now.

[Nemesis6]

There have been quite a few cases where they have tried to send detainees back to Uzbekistan(horrible place to be sent if you're charged with terrorism by the Americans), Pakistan, whatever country they came from because they couldn't make the charges stick, but the governments would not accept them; security risk. Of course, if it's an innocent person it doesn't really matter - You've been to guantanamo, so you get to carry that label for a long long time. There is also another problem - A lot of the people who have been released have actually returned to jihad, not just against the Americans in Afghanistan and Iraq, but in Chechnya, fighting the Russians. So among the innocent people, there are genuine lying creeps who try to blend in with the majority, they were dubbed something along the lines of the  "Tipton Three". Anyway, this was a case of three people from Britain who, after going to Gitmo after being taken in Afghanistan, manipulated the media for a long, long time, getting their lies published in documentaries, the press, etc. Later, by their own admission, they admitted to attending taliban training camps in Afghanistan, so they were in there with good reason. Of course, when they're not given the choice to be actually put before a judge and not be indefinitely detained, the argument about them returning to whatever activities becomes a bit moot...  

Gitmo is bad, but like the two wars being waged, it's just not as easy as just shutting it down and going home, as good an idea as it is.

On topic, though - Kind of a drop in the bucket kind of thing here, this is however deliciously despicable. I think this might just justify the assertion that those two people are evil!  

[Grizzly]

fun fact Barack 'change' Obama is half way done with his term and everything is exactly the same as when he came in.

Wow, it's almost as if there were some... other political force... that wanted to stop him. Such a party would be able to score points if he couldn't meet his campaign promises, but who would sacrifice the good of the country for their own political ends??

Waitwaitwait. It would probably sound really ignorant, but I am a dutch kid. That mysterious other political force actually didn't get enough votes and such to be an impeding factor? I thought the democrats still had the majority of the seats.

[Mikes]

As far as I know there's been a lot of red tape regarding where the prisoners are going to go, especially where the innocent ones are going to be freed. But some things are more important than politics; this is one of them.

Everything is politics...  

Doesn't mean it's good or bad... just that the continuum within which all governmental decisions are made is politics, no way around it, no way out of it and there is no good or bad in politics.
Good or bad is more of a question of the actual political decisions being made compared to a moral code. But if you say "something is more important than politics" what you are really saying is that you are dissatisfied with the current policies because they violate your moral code.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine.... happens when you study in the field But anyways, yeah, Gitmo is morally completely unacceptable.