[Mongoose]

Maybe they can just pop off their legs and stick their torsos into a fighter.

[Timerlane]

Somehow, I think that when someone uses the word "species", they're talking about the life forms as opposed to their technology, and the second part of that phrase specifically mentions that the "technology" all have things in common.  So, quick summary of this statement: Shivan life forms... not all the same, Shivan technology... all the same.  Based on the stated life form differences, and the visual indications of mechanical components integrated into the Shivans themselves, (which obviously isn't something that found its way into the species naturally), I conclude that the Shivans are genetically engineered, and since the only aspect of Shivan vessels we've been seeing is warships (and support craft), its natural to assume that these Shivans are soldiers of a sort.  Designing a single Shivan soldier for all combat roles might seem a good idea in terms of flexibility and mass production, but many traits that you might want to have in a close-quarters combat soldier, aren't necessarily the same ones you'd want for a fighter pilot.  Its only only natural to assume type specialization.

Certainly possible, but there's a decided lack of supporting evidence elsewhere(nothing in the Tech Room suggests different 'castes' or 'phenotypes' were ever encountered). There must have been a body in the cockpit of the Dragon that Alpha 1 helped capture(presumably, back at base, the cockpit was pried open, with a squad of marines standing at the ready), and one would figure a significantly altered 'pilot Shivan' would have been worth noting.

Maybe they can just pop off their legs and stick their torsos into a fighter.

Just was reminded of this...

Shivan technology has proved baffling for both Terran and Vasudan scientists. Although their weapons and technology by necessity obey the same physical laws, the systems of Shivan craft seem to be fully integrated with the pilot's biology, making it difficult, but still possible, to use their spacecraft for espionage and spying.

If we take 'fully integrated with the pilot's biology' as something like a direct neural interface, then the Shivan could either curl up in a little ball(not needing its handsclaws for anything), or indeed take other, more...extreme measures to fit themselves in.

Enter the Dragon's command brief does suggest it takes more than a traceable button or lever to operate many aspects of the ship, or else the 'Terran Dragon' wouldn't have been so difficult to retrofit. Of course, by FS2, SOC/GTVI knew enough to turn Maras into fully functional(and even improved-performance) fighters.

[Thaeris]

That settles it. The Cylons went back in time, fully integrated themselves with both their pseudo-organic and non-organic selves, and came back as the Shivans.

It's a small universe after all!

 

[Iranon]

The Myrmidon is a more stereotypical space superiority fighter than the Ulysses. I have always treated the latter as an interceptor. I don't know how a fighter of its size and statistics could be called anything else.

The distinction between air superiority fighters and interceptors did not really have anything to do with size. One was agile and optimised for dogfights, the other for beyond visual range engagements with an emphasis on missile armament and raw speed. The Ulysses is definitely high on agility and, while fast eough (faster average speed than a Perseus on full power to the engines), doesn't carry an impressive missile load. Definitely a space superiority fighter.

About the Myrmidon, if it's not a Space Superiority fighter, what should it have been called? Medium Fighter? Space Superiority bomber?

Thematically, Freespace ships are a mishmash of cold-war-era aviation garnished with ww2-era dogfighting. I'm not sure whether this is intentional, but more than any given type the Myrmidon feels very American. Large, complex, fast, well-armed and expected to ensure space superiority against less powerful but more nimble foes.

Space Superiority Fighter? Maybe, see above.
Interceptor? Speed is barely adequate and there's more emphasis on gun firepower, but this could work.
Assault Fighter? Very flimsy for this role, firepower isn't entirely convincing either but it's faster. Strike fighter?

I think it's a true multi-role craft... usually an awkward one but it has its moments.


Also, in the Freespace universe 'advanced' seems to mean something strange because anything with that word in the description is deeply flawed for what it's supposed to do.

The 'advanced space superiority fighter' Myrmidon is sluggish and can't mount the iconic missile (Harpoon).
The 'advanced interceptor' Serapis is slow and can't mount the iconic missile (Trebuchet).
The 'advanced bomber' Bakha is just not very good compared to the Sekhmet and can't mount the iconic missile (Helios).

[headdie]

anyone considered that the myrm is more of the apollo's spiritual lineage that the uly.

missile capacity is the same (though critically the myrm is denied the principle dogfighter missile) uly is half the capacity
the hull:shield ratio is more comparable than the uly
if memory of the apollo is correct it is also sluggish like the myrm
they take up about the same volume of space the myrm is shorter but taller (this does make it easier to hit)

[QuantumDelta]

I have no idea why you guys think the harpoon is so great or so 'signature dogfight', when compared to tempests it's almost useless.

[The E]

Because the standard AI is so very not good at dodging them, I suppose.

[Mongoose]

And because some of us aren't very good with Tempests at all. The Harpoon is usually my go-to missile.

[Thaeris]

I found that, of all weapons, the Rockeye was great for spamming at Dragons when at close ranges. Unfortunately, the missile is huge, non-maneuverable, and generally a great pain. So that's a volumetric fire solution and grievance all in one!

Dear Lord... If we had a heat-seeking light rocket (like the Tempest)... It would be all over! 

[Marcov]

My favorite would be the Tornado, but gets depleted rather quickly.

But somehow, the swirling of a Rockeye is pretty awesome 

[SpardaSon21]

Yeah, heaven forbid copy the excellent dogfight missile known as the Sidewinder, instead we get an AMRAAM with short range.

[ChronoReverse]

The nice thing about Tornadoes is that they have better range than the Harpoon and almost the same damage when single fired (which incidentally gives you the same number of shots).

[Scotty]

Yeah, heaven forbid copy the excellent dogfight missile known as the Sidewinder, instead we get an AMRAAM with short range.

I thought the Sidewinder equivlanet was the Harpoon.

[SpardaSon21]

The Hornet has too long a range and much too high a lock time.  If something like the Sidewinder were to be implemented in FS it would pretty much be a bigger heat-seeking Tempest with high maneuverability, basically a nice snapshot missile that gives your target no time to react.

Of course, the Phoenix is already in as the Trebuchet, leaving a gap in the 1.5-3km engagement range that would be filled by something like the AMRAAM, a weaker, smaller, longer-ranged Phoenix V basically.

[Scotty]

Sorry, I mistyped.

The big reason a missile like that doesn't exist in Freespace is balance.  No time to react?  Dumbfires are fast because you're less likely to hit.  Lock-ons take time, but are more likely to hit.  A snapshot missile that also locks?  Breaks balance.  No one would ever take anything else.

[el_magnifico]

I found that, of all weapons, the Rockeye was great for spamming at Dragons when at close ranges.

I used to think exactly the same. But it no longer works in Insane difficulty.

Sorry, I mistyped.

The big reason a missile like that doesn't exist in Freespace is balance.  No time to react?  Dumbfires are fast because you're less likely to hit.  Lock-ons take time, but are more likely to hit.  A snapshot missile that also locks?  Breaks balance.  No one would ever take anything else.

If the missile is too big, ineffective for subsystems, or has very limited compatibility/availability, then yes, people would take other missiles.

Think about it, the Rockeye is actually quite good, but it's just too big for the amount of damage it delivers.

[SpardaSon21]

Well, to be honest Scotty I wasn't thinking it would be near-instant, I got Freespace confused with more fast-paced combat somehow.  A highly maneuverable missile with 800 range, 275-300 speed, 60-75 damage, heat seeking, and a small blast radius is what I was thinking.  So basically something used to help un-maneuverable assault fighters take out stuff normally capable of flying rings around them.

[General Battuta]

Drop all your Harpoons for Tempests and check out what happens. 

[Androgeos Exeunt]

* Androgeos Exeunt uses Tempests more than he does Harpoons. on Very Easy.

Harpoons don't scare me. Tempests do because they make me see red if they keep hitting. Tempests reload so fast, expending them quickly is never an issue for me. On the other hand, well-placed dual Harpoons can 1HKO anything up to a Hercules.

The Hornet is not a beginner's missile. It requires some dexterity to use. It's one of the most ideal secondary weapons if you're behind a slow target, such as bombers, or if your target is a warship. I've attempted to hit stuff with the Hornet on a head-on pass before, and I've never succeeded.

[Iranon]

anyone considered that the myrm is more of the apollo's spiritual lineage that the uly.

missile capacity is the same (though critically the myrm is denied the principle dogfighter missile) uly is half the capacity
the hull:shield ratio is more comparable than the uly
if memory of the apollo is correct it is also sluggish like the myrm
they take up about the same volume of space the myrm is shorter but taller (this does make it easier to hit)

Discounting the very slow roll rate, the Apollo handles exactly like a Loki, which is rather good and imo makes it a better dogfighter than the Myrmidon. There would be little reason to fly the Apollo in FS2, but not because of later craft with the same designation: it carries twice the missile load of the Ulyyses and is a lot more agile than the Myrmidon. It is, however, rendered obsolete by the Perseus which is very close in terms of manoeverability, durability, armament and afterburners and markedly superior in top speed and weapon energy. Interestingly, the Perseus is closer in overal top speed to the Apollo than it is to the Valkyrie because FS2-era afterburners generally aren't very good.

*

Regarding the missile debate: Sorry for kicking this off. I just found it worth noting that any craft with an 'advanced' in its type isn't very good at the defining aspect of its type AND can't carry the missile most associated with the role.