Author Topic: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?  (Read 8890 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
I suppose I'll make Snail's discovery official. A new intelligence entry has been added to the Blue Planet website, discussing the GTVA's analysis of the Federation and the Ubuntu Party. Check it out here.

Those further interested in the more spiritual/philosophical elements of the Ubuntu philosophy can explore its historical roots here. It may be of interest to compare the Ubuntu Party's focus on inter-human relations with the GTVA's focus on 'relations' (such as they are) between humans and xenocidal aliens.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
I just learned something today.
I thought the operating system just picked a funny word. :nervous:
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Spoon

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
So, where do I sign up for the GTVA again?  :p
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Offline Aardwolf

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
Interesting. But I got kind of annoyed about being told repeatedly to see REDACTED. :p

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
Nothing I'm not already used from the Techroom. After all the GTVA sent ships to scout N362 only to find REDACTED there. :nod:

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
I hope we get to fight for the GTVA in WiH.

I agree with their assessment of Ubuntu, it's a fundamentally flawed system that will result in our extinction if it goes beyond Sol.
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Offline The E

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
*Cough*

It has been said several times that you'll be flying for the UEF.

I would be interested to hear why you think Ubuntu is flawed, though.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
The story will not be rooting for either side. The goal has always been to present a truly bilateral conflict, both morally and militarily.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
I'm curious as to how our glorious Alliance managed to get such detailed info on the Feds.

 

Offline The E

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
Ubuntu is really big on open information sources. Also, the GTVA has captured quite a few POWs during the conflict.
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Offline jr2

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
Do they have a cousin faction called Mint?  :lol:

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
Do they have a cousin faction called Mint?  :lol:

See the first post, please.

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
I'm curious as to how our glorious Alliance managed to get such detailed info on the Feds.

I hope we get to fight for the GTVA in WiH.

I agree with their assessment of Ubuntu, it's a fundamentally flawed system that will result in our extinction if it goes beyond Sol.
Agreed on that count. But that's all I'll say on the matter.

There's the Battle of Jupiter mission which plays from a GalTev perspective as well.

 

Offline Iss Mneur

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
Ubuntu is really big on open information sources. Also, the GTVA has captured quite a few POWs during the conflict.
So the GTVA was able to collect this information via the peliminary probes of Sol?  I realize that some time has passed since the events of AoA, but the dossier says that this was the basis for the GTVA's decision to go to war with UEF.
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Offline Ravenholme

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
*Cough*

It has been said several times that you'll be flying for the UEF.

I would be interested to hear why you think Ubuntu is flawed, though.

Pretty much for the very reasons presented in the GTVA dossier. It's an insular system that can't cope with anything beyond Sol, it doesn't take into account the presence of hostile alien species (In other words, it falls into the trap of assuming that everything and everyone is going to be as Utopian as they are), and frankly, the Utopian styled system seems like it'd collapse at the first sign of a sneeze, since they're so far out from human nature it's not even funny.
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Offline The E

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
Ubuntu is really big on open information sources. Also, the GTVA has captured quite a few POWs during the conflict.
So the GTVA was able to collect this information via the peliminary probes of Sol?  I realize that some time has passed since the events of AoA, but the dossier says that this was the basis for the GTVA's decision to go to war with UEF.

Basically, yes. Their sensor drones picked up a lot of info by basically doing an archive binge of their internet traffic. Later, HumInt was added to the mix.

Pretty much for the very reasons presented in the GTVA dossier. It's an insular system that can't cope with anything beyond Sol, it doesn't take into account the presence of hostile alien species (In other words, it falls into the trap of assuming that everything and everyone is going to be as Utopian as they are), and frankly, the Utopian styled system seems like it'd collapse at the first sign of a sneeze, since they're so far out from human nature it's not even funny.

Hmm. I can't quite agree with that. The society that Ubuntu is trying to create is more like a proto-Culture (If you are familiar with Iain Banks' work). And as an astute reader knows, the Culture is the very epitome of Beware the nice ones.
Consider this: Could a society that is as pacifistic as you seem to think Ubuntu is be capable of holding off the GTVA for as long as it has?
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
Ubuntu is really big on open information sources. Also, the GTVA has captured quite a few POWs during the conflict.
So the GTVA was able to collect this information via the peliminary probes of Sol?  I realize that some time has passed since the events of AoA, but the dossier says that this was the basis for the GTVA's decision to go to war with UEF.

Basically, yes. Their sensor drones picked up a lot of info by basically doing an archive binge of their internet traffic. Later, HumInt was added to the mix.

Pretty much for the very reasons presented in the GTVA dossier. It's an insular system that can't cope with anything beyond Sol, it doesn't take into account the presence of hostile alien species (In other words, it falls into the trap of assuming that everything and everyone is going to be as Utopian as they are), and frankly, the Utopian styled system seems like it'd collapse at the first sign of a sneeze, since they're so far out from human nature it's not even funny.

Hmm. I can't quite agree with that. The society that Ubuntu is trying to create is more like a proto-Culture (If you are familiar with Iain Banks' work). And as an astute reader knows, the Culture is the very epitome of Beware the nice ones.
Consider this: Could a society that is as pacifistic as you seem to think Ubuntu is be capable of holding off the GTVA for as long as it has?

I was just away to edit my post and say "It's the culture without minds."

And the Minds are what make the Culture work, without them, the Culture would collapse overnight. The only thing that has kept the Ubuntu party/regime intact is that they have been isolated in Sol.
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Offline The E

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
No, they don't have Minds. That's why I said proto-Culture. Given time, they will become something like the Culture.

Yes, the Culture as presented in the books would not work without the minds. But it wasn't always this way.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
Why do so many of you people assume that just because the UEF didn't expect the GTVA to be hostile towards them, that they would treat the Shivans the same?
The GTVA are their long lost brothers and sisters. They (or half of them anyway) are the same species, while the Shivans are a species that very clearly demonstrated it's hostility, unwillingness to communicate and intent to completely wipe out the Human race in the great war.
The UEF might be peacefull, but they aren't total pacifists. They have a quite massive fleet and ships that outmatch any other ships they every saw before the node was reopened with the sole exception of the Lucifer. And the contact between the 14th battlegroup and the Renjian pretty clearly shows that they are not shy to employ violence to defend themselfs.

Also the UEF government doesn't just tolerate, but actively encourages discussion and critique of themselfs. To me that sounds like their form of government is well siuted to quickly adapt to changing situations.

Quote
So the GTVA was able to collect this information via the peliminary probes of Sol?  I realize that some time has passed since the events of AoA, but the dossier says that this was the basis for the GTVA's decision to go to war with UEF.
With the exception of the Fedayeen (about which the GTVA knows pretty much only that they exist) there is really no information in that dossier that wouldn't be freely available to every UEF citizen. Look at our own political systems and history.
With the exception of some stuff that's kept under cover and the occasional manipulation of the truth everything is freely available in books, internet, TV, radio, newspapers and so on. If the GTVA would send probes back in time, they'd just need to access the internet to get as much information as they have on the UEF (though they'd probably have a harder time telling what are facts and what are fiction, rumors or outright lies).

And considering that the Fedayeen are most likely somewhat controversial within the UEF, I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few discussions and acusations thrown around in the media and whatever succeded the internet in the 24th century. Or course such "sources" only give you rumors and no hard facts, but then the dossier states quite clearly that the GTVA has no clue what the Fedayeen really do.
"they appear" "it is rumored" "it's function is unclear and puzzling" "We are not certain".... four times stating their uncertainty in just three paragraphs shows pertty well how little the GTVA know for sure about the Fedayeen.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 02:46:38 am by -Norbert- »

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: New Dossier: 'What is Ubuntu'?
No, they don't have Minds. That's why I said proto-Culture. Given time, they will become something like the Culture.

Yes, the Culture as presented in the books would not work without the minds. But it wasn't always this way.

Before the Minds though, they used AIs in the same capacity (Just more limited), because even the Proto-Culture could not be counted on to be reliable when dealing with Genocidal Aliens/Excession events.

And the Shivans count as both.

Edit:

And as much as I love the Culture novels (Iain Banks is one of the best Scottish writers out there), the Culture is a fantasy that it'd be nearly impossible for humanity to reach (Iain himself said that in an interview), and whilst the Minds are the crux of the Culture, so AIs are to the Proto-Culture (AIs and, he suggested, the genetic engineering the Culture is capable of, the ability to rewrite humanity sans some of our less desirable traits.)

However, Ubuntu still has those less desirable traits, and lacks the AIs to make the hard decisions for them, so... it's doomed to failure. And it's failure could mean human extinction. So... GTVA, all the way.

Choose Survival. Fight for the GTVA.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 03:03:18 am by Ravenholme »
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